ben in lj

Porsche is striving to be more BMW than Ferrari like with every passing year.

ben in lj

nah, gary and i have debated the 430 vs. CS issue to exhaustion, right gary? :-)

tdf360

For sure! Actually, I'd love to own either one, beyond that it's just bench racing. And we do agree the CGT is awesome.

Gary

Sun Ra

ben,

did you move your CS yet?

The_Phantom

Yeah, but it is not as big of a deal as one might expect. Since 911s are rear engine rear wheel drive cars, they have much lower drivetrain losses than cars like the Corvette you mentioned. That's why in the two recent articles in Car & Driver and Road & Track which comparing the 997s to the new Corvettes, the 325 HP 997 was a little slower than the 400 HP Corvette and the 345 HP 997s was a little faster than the 400 HP Corvette. I realize that the Ford GT and Ferrari are also rear engine cars, but they are very rare and really there is no shame in being just almost as fast as a more expensive Ferrari (which is priced like the 2005 996 Turbo S which has 450 HP and is as fast as a comparably priced Ferrari). That being said, Porsche hasn't really significantly upgraded their engines for a while and when they do they will be probably be more than just competitive as they are now. What do you guys think?

ben in lj

hey watt. other than those two posts on ferrari chat, i've done nothing to advertise it cause i still hate to see it go even though i never drive it.

jecey

Well, 997GT3 vs the F430 ...
first, the F430 is 0,5 sec. slower than the F360 CS on the Ferrari test track.
Second, to compete with the F430, the GT3 should have all the tech. features tht the Ferrari has :
- Electronic differential
- Sequential gearbox
- Electronicly piloted suspension
- and to cover all, a kind of "manettino" (can't translate into german)
Why ? Cause, the F430 could be driven so fast by my little 8 years old nephew.
Not the GT3 !!!
The GT3 is not an easy car, and won't permit any mistakes.
Honestly, with the way I am driving a car on the public roads, I really need electronic assistance.
Remembre my accident, which was (proved) due to dirty road. With an ESP or similar, the accident would not happen.
We deliver now some parts for the coming GT3, based on the 997 platform. These parts are used for proto vehicles of course. And according to the chassis engineers, the engine will slighly have the same output. And the weight too ...
And bad news for some : no GT2 yet in prototypes. Only turbo's.

Yargk

The GT3 doesn't need an electronically controlled suspension to compete with the F430. Stuff like that seems to be able to balance comfort and performance, while a real race type suspension does the performance part better with some sacrifice in ride. That's what I want and that's what the essence of the GT3 is. No technology should be used unless that tech shows up in the race cars because if it's in the race cars, it's for performance.

Yargk

I don't think anyone is making this comparision. We are talking experienced driver vs. experienced driver. An easy to drive GT3 is the last thing we want. We could buy a Turbo if we wanted an easy to drive fast car.

ben in lj

actually the 430 is .75 slower, but the CS rides on corsas whereas the 430 does not.

tdf360

Thank you Ben! You da man!

Gary

ben in lj

No problem Gary :-) You've been right all along to point out the tire differential, I've just not been real sure about exactly how much of a diff it makes for sure. I'd definetely think the tires would make up the .75 diff and then some though which still means the CS isn't being nearly as obsoleted performance wise by the 430 as the 360 is. There is quite a bit of CS technology (and interior and exterior features) on the 430.

RSA333

I have driven the new vette and the new Porsche Turbo prototype (not the GT3), side-by-side. In Germany, at one of the as yet un-named tracks. I do not believe that performance and weight numbers tell the story. The vette was much lighter but could not compete with the turbo, even on a very twisty track, with long straights. I can't say more now because I subcontract with Porsche. I also beleive that the new GT3 will be faster. But I am biased...

------------------

2002 996TTX50
92 RSA
93 911 Turbo S2
80 SC

Greg Fishman

Did you ever think it might not have to do with drivetrain loss but gearing differences? Show me proof that rear engine cars have less drivetrain loss, I don't believe it.

tdf360

From talking with several drivers who have done back-to-back tests at the track, it appears R tires are approximately 3 to 4 sec/lap faster than the best street tires on a 90 sec lap, and full race slicks are about 2 to 3 sec faster than the R's. Tests were done on the same day, with the only variable being the tires. I think there was a write-up in one of the smaller enthusiast magazines a while back about it - maybe Grassroots Motorsports.

Gary