BBE Centre muffler bypass
01-11-2017, 03:19 PM
#16
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As far as I know, you chose to set up shop in California. Just know that if you willingly establish a manufacturing facility in a place with some of the highest taxes, the most burdensome regulations, exceptionally high real estate prices, a very high cost of living, and that is union-friendly, your complaints about not being cost competitive will fall on a lot of deaf ears.
I have seen your products. They are high quality and are well regarded in the market. You can own that. You're better off selling the premium aspect of your product, the R&D you put into it and the years of real-world, over the road testing you've got. Don't bring your overhead into the equation, no one is going to care about that.
I have seen your products. They are high quality and are well regarded in the market. You can own that. You're better off selling the premium aspect of your product, the R&D you put into it and the years of real-world, over the road testing you've got. Don't bring your overhead into the equation, no one is going to care about that.
On a completely different note, I am interested in how you decided to go with a crossover style.
It is my understanding that an x-pipe or other type of crossover in a dual-path exhaust only provides benefits when it is placed in a very specific location in the flow path, and that position is not only different for every type of engine/exhaust configuration, but also changes within that setup as RPM and other parameters vary. I have been led to believe that placing a crossover is as much art as science.
Also, you eschew the more direct path of BBE's crossed tubes for a 180 degree bend on both sides, to enable you to have the crossover tube. Did you test other configurations before settling on your current design?
I am genuinely curious about how your design process went and what led you to the current setup.
It is my understanding that an x-pipe or other type of crossover in a dual-path exhaust only provides benefits when it is placed in a very specific location in the flow path, and that position is not only different for every type of engine/exhaust configuration, but also changes within that setup as RPM and other parameters vary. I have been led to believe that placing a crossover is as much art as science.
Also, you eschew the more direct path of BBE's crossed tubes for a 180 degree bend on both sides, to enable you to have the crossover tube. Did you test other configurations before settling on your current design?
I am genuinely curious about how your design process went and what led you to the current setup.
It was more for sound but indeed having done many indie dynos it was certainly nice to know it made a bit more power. As a result we were the first ones to tune the SDI ecu for these cars in October of 2008. Together with EVOMS we spent many week/months/$$ fine tuning for the exhaust too. Certainly worth it and a fun learning experience.
01-11-2017, 04:07 PM
#17
Drifting
Sharky, I appreciate your response. I am sorry, my posts got a little blended as both Dan at your company and John ad Fabspeed both posted comments. My first post was directed at both companies, since you're both located in Cali; my second mostly to John, as their design is the one that uses the tight bends and crossover.
On the subject of the price to build a crossover piece like BBE's or Sharkwerks', I'll throw out something that I experienced. After I saw the Sharkwerks crossover for the first time, I took a picture of it to the muffler shop that did my Gundo hack. I talked to the owner about having a similar setup made in his shop. He quoted me between $200 and $250 for parts (stainless) and labor. The only thing that prevented me from doing it was that I would have had to leave my car at his shop for a couple of days while he used it to form the piece.
I know from dealing with him in the past that the welds would not have been pretty and the part would have been ugly, bare steel. No warranty was implied or given. I even considered having him make multiple pieces and selling them locally. But, the fact is that this can be done for a lot less money than even BBE charges. Set up a jig, and have the right tools in place and you could churn a ton of these out.
This begs my next question. I am not an expert in intellectual property law, but what protections are out there for a company builds these kinds of parts? What could a company like Sharkwerks do to prevent another company from plagiarizing one of your designs, producing it in a less-expensive locale and undercutting you? Are there any?
On the subject of the price to build a crossover piece like BBE's or Sharkwerks', I'll throw out something that I experienced. After I saw the Sharkwerks crossover for the first time, I took a picture of it to the muffler shop that did my Gundo hack. I talked to the owner about having a similar setup made in his shop. He quoted me between $200 and $250 for parts (stainless) and labor. The only thing that prevented me from doing it was that I would have had to leave my car at his shop for a couple of days while he used it to form the piece.
I know from dealing with him in the past that the welds would not have been pretty and the part would have been ugly, bare steel. No warranty was implied or given. I even considered having him make multiple pieces and selling them locally. But, the fact is that this can be done for a lot less money than even BBE charges. Set up a jig, and have the right tools in place and you could churn a ton of these out.
This begs my next question. I am not an expert in intellectual property law, but what protections are out there for a company builds these kinds of parts? What could a company like Sharkwerks do to prevent another company from plagiarizing one of your designs, producing it in a less-expensive locale and undercutting you? Are there any?
01-11-2017, 04:17 PM
#18
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Sharky, I appreciate your response. I am sorry, my posts got a little blended as both Dan at your company and John ad Fabspeed both posted comments. My first post was directed at both companies, since you're both located in Cali; my second mostly to John, as their design is the one that uses the tight bends and crossover.
On the subject of the price to build a crossover piece like BBE's or Sharkwerks', I'll throw out something that I experienced. After I saw the Sharkwerks crossover for the first time, I took a picture of it to the muffler shop that did my Gundo hack. I talked to the owner about having a similar setup made in his shop. He quoted me between $200 and $250 for parts (stainless) and labor. The only thing that prevented me from doing it was that I would have had to leave my car at his shop for a couple of days while he used it to form the piece.
I know from dealing with him in the past that the welds would not have been pretty and the part would have been ugly, bare steel. No warranty was implied or given. I even considered having him make multiple pieces and selling them locally. But, the fact is that this can be done for a lot less money than even BBE charges. Set up a jig, and have the right tools in place and you could churn a ton of these out.
This begs my next question. I am not an expert in intellectual property law, but what protections are out there for a company builds these kinds of parts? What could a company like Sharkwerks do to prevent another company from plagiarizing one of your designs, producing it in a less-expensive locale and undercutting you? Are there any?
On the subject of the price to build a crossover piece like BBE's or Sharkwerks', I'll throw out something that I experienced. After I saw the Sharkwerks crossover for the first time, I took a picture of it to the muffler shop that did my Gundo hack. I talked to the owner about having a similar setup made in his shop. He quoted me between $200 and $250 for parts (stainless) and labor. The only thing that prevented me from doing it was that I would have had to leave my car at his shop for a couple of days while he used it to form the piece.
I know from dealing with him in the past that the welds would not have been pretty and the part would have been ugly, bare steel. No warranty was implied or given. I even considered having him make multiple pieces and selling them locally. But, the fact is that this can be done for a lot less money than even BBE charges. Set up a jig, and have the right tools in place and you could churn a ton of these out.
This begs my next question. I am not an expert in intellectual property law, but what protections are out there for a company builds these kinds of parts? What could a company like Sharkwerks do to prevent another company from plagiarizing one of your designs, producing it in a less-expensive locale and undercutting you? Are there any?
DIY'ing is certainly fun and can be rewarding and my advice though is to not skimp on the materials either. Do use stainless and not mild steel- especially in your environment where it won't last well. I'd go with less welds and more tube bending if I were you. It'll last longer as well as flow/look better too. There are some protections but this is a somewhat small industry/community and generally it doesn't get to that point or have to.I'm going to go and make an iphone for less than apple charges too or at least a case j/k
01-11-2017, 09:21 PM
#19
Instructor
Thread Starter
When I started this post about the BBE bypass I didn't think it would evolve into the lengthy back and forth with Sharkwerks and Fabspeed and so many Rennlisters.
To tell you the truth it is good to see Sharkwerks and Fabspeed backing their products so passionately.
Conspicuously missing from this thread is any comment from Billy Boat (maybe because they don't cruise this forum or maybe they do but don't care).
Ed
To tell you the truth it is good to see Sharkwerks and Fabspeed backing their products so passionately.
Conspicuously missing from this thread is any comment from Billy Boat (maybe because they don't cruise this forum or maybe they do but don't care).
Ed
01-12-2017, 12:19 AM
#20
Rennlist Member
I have had enough beers in me tonight to state that BBE is probably big enough that they dont have to patrol rennlist for winds of change. Sharkwerks has to recoup their RD time (rightfully so), but dont let any one fool you, 304SS tubing isnt too expensive, even from Burns/SPD (as stated above). On the other hand, I think people underestimate the time required to fab one of these up by hand, which makes an off the shelf solution attractive (unless you want to learn/have spare time).
Last edited by tuxkilla; 01-12-2017 at 12:37 AM.
01-12-2017, 06:06 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
I have a hard enough time keeping the top side of my car shiny clean let alone the exhaust tips and least the mufflers and exhaust pipes.
I opted for the BBE strictly for the sound, any performance gain a plus. Fabspeed...man they are exotic and glitter , very nice. Sharkwerks... shiny bling but to the point , very nice. My second choice depending on delivery from ...BBE..... utilitarian and gets the job done , nice.
Instal and fit is good, no complaints. I only get to see mine more than most as it sleeps on a lift. I dont wear gold rings , earings ,have tattoos, or or glittery bodypiercings so the basic was fine and it left me with coin to buy a pretty front lip which i will see. Its just a taste thing in my opinion.....get what you feel comfortable with. Maybe you like everyone looking at your rear. Nothing wrong with that!!
Oh ya, I called BBE direct and asked about delivery.......talked to a guy who said they have a hard time keeping them in stock and as the auto show was on it would be about 10 days before he could have his guys fab some and get one out to me..... I recieved it about 10 days after I placed my order.
I opted for the BBE strictly for the sound, any performance gain a plus. Fabspeed...man they are exotic and glitter , very nice. Sharkwerks... shiny bling but to the point , very nice. My second choice depending on delivery from ...BBE..... utilitarian and gets the job done , nice.
Instal and fit is good, no complaints. I only get to see mine more than most as it sleeps on a lift. I dont wear gold rings , earings ,have tattoos, or or glittery bodypiercings so the basic was fine and it left me with coin to buy a pretty front lip which i will see. Its just a taste thing in my opinion.....get what you feel comfortable with. Maybe you like everyone looking at your rear. Nothing wrong with that!!
Oh ya, I called BBE direct and asked about delivery.......talked to a guy who said they have a hard time keeping them in stock and as the auto show was on it would be about 10 days before he could have his guys fab some and get one out to me..... I recieved it about 10 days after I placed my order.
01-13-2017, 12:20 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
Did you by any chance ask them if they had their pipes made in China as someone here alluded to?
01-13-2017, 02:06 PM
#24
Burning Brakes
Another option that hasn't been mentioned is the AWE Tuning bypass pipes. They are pretty much identical to the sharkwers ones and IMO they are the same quality. Welds are perfect, fit was the same as if I was installing an OEM part. Car sounds amazing.
As far as I can see, the only difference is the price. I bought mine from GMP Performance (no affiliation) and I paid $730 shipped. Great customer service and I received the part one week earlier than promised.
They have it for $680 now...
https://www.gmpperformance.com/index...ID=340171&VS=1
As far as I can see, the only difference is the price. I bought mine from GMP Performance (no affiliation) and I paid $730 shipped. Great customer service and I received the part one week earlier than promised.
They have it for $680 now...
https://www.gmpperformance.com/index...ID=340171&VS=1
01-13-2017, 07:04 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
Billy Boat Bypass Pipes
sorry just used my iPhone
Cold start
Cold Kick Down
Inside acceleration
Take off
sorry just used my iPhone
Cold start
Cold Kick Down
Inside acceleration
Take off
Last edited by docdrs; 01-15-2017 at 05:39 PM.
01-15-2017, 04:40 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
01-20-2017, 09:02 PM
#30
Drifting
Update for the OP.
I installed my BBE pipes Monday. Installation was fairly painless. I only broke one stud off on the passenger side cat. Pipes didn't fall into place but fit well enough. The welds looked good and the assembly is of above average quality. The steel is heavy gauge and the unit is solidly constructed.
The only complaint with installation was that the pipes seemed short at the interface with the mufflers. The exhaust clamps covered the gap sufficiently but I would have liked another three quarters of an inch of length (that's what she said).
I've driven the car for four days now and love the sound. Exhaust tone is deeper, slightly louder but not annoyingly so. Revs and downshifts in sport mode sound fantastic.
I'm very pleased with the result.
I installed my BBE pipes Monday. Installation was fairly painless. I only broke one stud off on the passenger side cat. Pipes didn't fall into place but fit well enough. The welds looked good and the assembly is of above average quality. The steel is heavy gauge and the unit is solidly constructed.
The only complaint with installation was that the pipes seemed short at the interface with the mufflers. The exhaust clamps covered the gap sufficiently but I would have liked another three quarters of an inch of length (that's what she said).
I've driven the car for four days now and love the sound. Exhaust tone is deeper, slightly louder but not annoyingly so. Revs and downshifts in sport mode sound fantastic.
I'm very pleased with the result.