pkts

A week ago I started searching for a CPO 997…it would be my first Porsche and I had zero understanding of the cars and the buying/searching process. This forum has been enormously helpful in getting me up to speed so I thought I'd pass along what I learned. Feel free to make corrections and I'll edit the post. I think some of my points might be obvious or a long version of "depends on...."

Searching

I used Porsche's website, auto trader (mostly when I was considering a non-CPO car) and individual Porsche dealerships websites. Occasionally a car will pop up on the individual website before it goes up on Porsche's. My understanding is that Porsche's is not updated over the weekend so always call the dealer to see if the car is still available.

This may seem obvious but DON'T treat what the sales person says as gospel. First place I went, the guy told me the two cars I was interested in had just sold and that the 997.2 market was hot and it would be hard to find a good car. Anything available for a while would probably have something wrong with it. And that cars in CA were being bought up fast and then resold in other parts of the world for an easy profit, and that people were coming off lease and, based on the price Porsche was offering to sell the car to them, were buying the car just to resell it for a profit (wouldn't the sales tax negate most of their possible profit?). I got disheartened and almost just stopped searching. Then I found a stripped down model with nothing wrong with it later that day very close to me. And I've found plenty of other cars since. So, listen to what everyone has to say but don't treat it as gospel. Or just ask on these forums

I have a tendency to wonder "Why" about these cars when I'm searching. I'm looking for a good price so seem to be finding some cars that are decent prices but have been on the lot for a while. With no used car experience, I assumed that meant there was something wrong with the car (mechanical or an accident). But some cars are specced wrong or were priced wrong for a while or are an unpopular color or were in a minor accident.

Pricing

I will offer a dealer about 8-11K off the asking price on the car. If you ask for too much they will just ignore your email or not even make a counter offer. So don't go super low unless that is really your final offer. Unless the car is fairly priced or has been on the lot for little time, you should fairly easily be able to get 2500-3500 off the price.

Narrowing down what car to get

Miles, build date, accidents, # of owners. Every buyer weighs each area with different importance. I really don't like cars with more than one owner (I'm searching for 3 year old cars) but I know other people are more worried about high mileage. If those miles were mostly highway miles, I'm less concerned about them. This can be estimated by doing operating hours/mileage. A city car might come up with 20-30 MPH and a highway car 35-50 MPH. Build date is important to me on first look
if I'm trying to avoid a launch car but it seems on this forum that people don't worry about the reliability of launch cars so perhaps it's a non-issue.

Communicating with the dealer - what to ask for

First thing I call the dealer and ask for the car fax ( I prefer this over Autocheck which doesn't seem to have servicing info) and vehicle locator detail to be emailed to me. This gets me a salesperson who I then email primarily. I find that requests on their websites get lost or take some time to be responded to. You can certainly flood dealers with low ball offers just to see what responses you get. I always tell them I am looking to buy soon (days/weeks) so they are motivated.

After I start emailing the dealer I will additionally ask for DME readout, list of fault codes (these can be brought up on one to two pages of the 100+ page document), CPO inspection checklist, and all service invoices. The vehicle locator detail tells you the options and MSRP as well as the build month. DME tells you rev ranges and operating hours (which can give you average MPH if you divide by mileage of the car - this can tell you if the odo might have been tampered with). Checklist will tell you remaining brakes, tires, in service date etc. You will only be able to get service invoices if the car was serviced at the same dealer or the records were with the car. You can contact the previous dealer but they usually won't release the info unless you are the owner and I've had little success getting the current dealer to call them and get the info released. The car fax will sometimes include all service data but it is cursory at best. I'd put all this data into a spreadsheet if you are looking at a bunch of cars.

Fault codes can be hard to diagnose especially on cars that have been sitting for a while. When the battery runs down the car gets low voltage and this can result in potentially unimportant codes in the radio (PCM3 I believe), PAS and the PDK. I have found this to be the case on a couple of PDK cars having the same codes (P1991, U0418, U0155, U0146). Best thing to do is have the faults cleared, take the car for a long test drive and see if the codes come back.

I thought that fault codes were generated during a test run at the time of the PPI (like being run on a dyno) but that can be generated at any time the car was run (days, weeks, months ago) and are held in memory until cleared out.

CPO

Extends the warranty for 6 years/100K miles from in service date. I've heard that it only lasts for 60-90 days (after that it needs to be re-CPOed) but I've seen cars past that date that still are CPOed. What gives? A car cannot be CPOed if it has required body work past a certain level of severity. There are some CPOed cars that have been in minor accidents.

PPI

Most dealers will be fine with taking a car to a nearby Indy for a PPI. I've been quoted 250-375 for a PPI. A good one will take a bunch of photos of the car and provide you with a checklist which you can compare with the CPO checklist. I have had dealers refuse a PPI on the basis that they either don't want the car off their lot or don't want non Porsche certified mechanics they don't know handling the car. In this case you can suggest having a PPI done at another Porsche dealer though an Indy is preferable.

After the PPI, go back to the dealer with a checklist of things you need to have addressed. Some dealers will not want to do extensive cosmetic repairs on the car (depending on the severity) and that is understandable since it is a used car but major issues should definitely be addressed. And all mechanical issues should be fixed before purchase. Make sure the car is perfect before you buy it. If the car has a bunch of work needed on it, it should be a red flag about the dealers CPO inspection since all that should have been caught by them.


Thanks again to all the help from members, especially USMC_DS1, No HTwo O, RED HORSE, hakaida702, Chris from Cali, Mike in CA and XR4Tim.

marriotm

Great summary. What are the values for 997.2 PDK cars these days?

Palmbeacher

That's rather an understatement! Remarkable how quickly you matriculated, given the doctoral dissertation you've written is any indication.

When I began my Porsche search I immediately ruled out buying over the internet, which limited me to one of the several dealerships within an hour's drive. Given this is Porsche's second-largest volume region in the US, that proved to be no limitation at all. I took my time and found the car I wanted. I drive by the dealership every day, and the car sat there for several months unsold (similar to what is currently happening with the new 991s they have on their premises). On the second-to-last day in February I walked in holding my chequebook, and told the salesman two things: one was the price I was willing to pay, all-in and out the door; the second was that if he used the "I'll take your offer to my manager" line on me, I would not be waiting when he got back from the loo or wherever he sequesters himself whilst perpetrating that insultingly transparent subterfuge, and asked him whether with one more day left to the weakest sales month of the year in the worst of economic times (2009) he was prepared to lose the sale. He offered me his hand, I wrote him the cheque, and I picked the car up the next morning.

pkts

marriotm, depends on the city. I've only been looking at the 2009 cars. I'd say in a big city like LA or NYC CPO C2 would start around 58K (lightly optioned) and C2S 6-8K more than that. However, I will say that I am cheap and mostly considering cars that have been on the lot of 2+ months.

palmbeach, haha, I know I still mostly know nothing. That's interesting that you, like me, focused on a car that had sat for months. I'm curious how your reliability has been...little voice inside me makes me worry about the reasons why the cars are there that long (or did you buy new?). I completely agree about the economy, late 08 early 09 was a fantastic time to buy a Porsche. I've come across quite a few 2009s that sat from Oct through March 09

Spokane5150

I think it's still a good time to buy and the economy doesn't seem to be changing for the better. My company put a hold on travel for the last 3 months. You know they pay those MBA's quite a bit to look into the future and hedge on what's coming. Last time we stopped traveling and cutting back it was 2007 about 6-months before the recession. I'm sort of worried economy but I think it's good time to buy a Porsche again.

BTW If you see a car that's been sitting for a while more than likely it's on Manheim. I can check if you like just give me the link or vin.

pkts

I agree about the economy, sounds like your company's economic modeling is pretty strong. Thanks Spokane, I appreciate that ! I'll PM you the two cars I'm considering. It says I can't PM you so here is the info

http://san-diego.porschedealer.com/p...16802/info.php

I'll find the VIN on the other one. It's VIN #: WP0AB29919S722610

Thanks!

OGWGFIW

Pkts,

Appreciate the summary as I am in same boat but looking to upgrade from a 996 to a 997.2 in the next 12 months. Started lurking about over here recently. I haven't visited a dealer or driven one yet, just doing searches but agree that there seem to be plenty of these cars on the market and not sure I would describe the market as hot. Of course finding the right one will always be a bit of a challenge.

You put some nice structure to the process that I will refer back to as my search moves forward.

pkts

Wonderful, I'm glad it will helpful. When I got started searching, I was really discouraged by the prices on the preowned search on porsche.com. However I'd say, unless the car just went on sale, you can easily automatically knock 2500-3500 of the price (and 2500 would only be in the case of a car already discounted heavily) and more depending on your patience and negotiating ability.

For me, the hardest part has been finding cars in colors I like since 70% of them are black

Good luck!

hakaida702

Did you pull the trigger?

OGWGFIW

Yes, the search narrows quickly. Silver or gray for me, PDK, less than 30,000 miles, etc. Porsche of Livermore has a decent selection I have noticed. They have a decent Arctic Silver 09 base cab for sale. 22k miles. Listed at $68k though.

pkts

Nope, I'm pretty much exactly split 50:50. C4S has 50K miles which I'm not excited about but ok with (highway miles) but it is in gray and the car looks awesome. And it was built in March 09. However the dealer won't do a PPI and I'd have to fly to it and cross my fingers. The other car has been PPIed and seems very clean but it's black and black is so, no offense to black P-car lovers, blahhhh. There just isn't that emotional reaction when I see pics of it and it was built 9/08...maybe it'll be different when I see it in person.

Still loving your GTS?

Spokane5150

Here is a really nice one. I cannot find his web site but this guy has a beauty for 60K on Manheim in PA. Black on Black 37k miles 2009 C2S None CPO but still has warranty. Might be worth a call.

call marty with any questions at 516 816 4646 or call paul at 410 371 1619

The other two are not at Auction. The linked one is right in the ball park with price. If you can get him down $1k you'd be doing very good on a CPO's car. It's a beaut.

pkts

That does look compelling though I figure I can't go east past Texas since I need to be able to drive it back over the weekend. 60K is great for a C2S with those miles.

I'm leaning towards the linked one though it's messing with my head because in all the PPI photos it is quite dirty while the second car looks badasss. Mind games But I am warming up to the full leather interior that I didn't even know about and would never have ordered myself.

Thanks a ton for the info !

widers911

you should check this one out...great deal but it is black. also ignore the ad, it is a 3.8 C2S

http://www.sfbenz.com/used/Porsche/2...55618f2655.htm

pkts

Thanks...I really had my heart set on a CPO but that car looks clean on the carfax. Pity you can't see photos. Wish it was cheaper to repaint cars...I'd turn these black cars to beautiful Carrera White in a second