GT3 or GTS?
12-24-2010, 03:51 PM
#61
I bought a GT3 about 2 weeks ago, have driven it everyday since then, about 1500 miles total.
It is fine on the street. It is not as quiet or comfortable as a Mercedes or BMW sedan, but it sure is more comfortable than a 1988 porsche and quieter than some pickup trucks.
One caveat, if you are going to be bummed by a scraped up front spoiler, than this is not the car for you. It scrapes everywhere. I am kind of thinking of replacing it when I replace tires - it is really just a wear item and can't stay pristine.
David
12-24-2010, 04:04 PM
#62
Rennlist Member
Only on the track, though, which brings us back to the original question.
The benefits of a GT3 are nearly impossible to exploit or even perceive on the street. For a car that won't see the track, the GTS is the obvious choice.
The benefits of a GT3 are nearly impossible to exploit or even perceive on the street. For a car that won't see the track, the GTS is the obvious choice.
12-24-2010, 04:29 PM
#63
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My GT3 maintenance is not much different than a 997 -- oil changes and tune-ups.
And I have never found my GT3 annoys me or feels like a model -- I go to my garage, start the car and drive it, park it and forget it, just like a regular car.
Regards,
12-24-2010, 04:29 PM
#64
Burning Brakes
Actually i'd aver on that Nugget, and I can speak from experience (check the signature...)
Is the GT3 a great DD...ahh rather depends on your definition of "great". Spanking the throttle, letting the engine rip to 8400rpm and luxuriating in the sonic delights as the wail flows through your body - and off the underpass - on your way to work....F()ck yes!...One did arrive grinning like a cheshire cat...a useful mindset cleanse..if you will.
Now, shift the scene a little...tough day...and you're caught in a texas style deluge, "wading home" in bumper to bumper traffic usings MPSCs, with a clutch that feels like a leg press, with a suspension helpfully pointing out that some Houston roads would struggle to pass muster in Lagos....and you are less enamoured. A C2S equipped with PDK is a remarkably flexible, companion....damn civil to be around on days such as those...and then able to get down right focused/aggresive when needed...
I shifted from a GT3 because I needed two rear seats....I surrendered visceral feedback and sonic delights for a rather easier tool to wend my way around in....And whilst a Tubi or PSE might get you some of the sonics....its not quite the same banshee wail as the Mezger emulating Wagner (and as you might have gleaned I do miss that stimulation
)
Either way you will be grinning...but for rather different reasons....suffice either way you'll shape some memories that will be choice
Is the GT3 a great DD...ahh rather depends on your definition of "great". Spanking the throttle, letting the engine rip to 8400rpm and luxuriating in the sonic delights as the wail flows through your body - and off the underpass - on your way to work....F()ck yes!...One did arrive grinning like a cheshire cat...a useful mindset cleanse..if you will.
Now, shift the scene a little...tough day...and you're caught in a texas style deluge, "wading home" in bumper to bumper traffic usings MPSCs, with a clutch that feels like a leg press, with a suspension helpfully pointing out that some Houston roads would struggle to pass muster in Lagos....and you are less enamoured. A C2S equipped with PDK is a remarkably flexible, companion....damn civil to be around on days such as those...and then able to get down right focused/aggresive when needed...
I shifted from a GT3 because I needed two rear seats....I surrendered visceral feedback and sonic delights for a rather easier tool to wend my way around in....And whilst a Tubi or PSE might get you some of the sonics....its not quite the same banshee wail as the Mezger emulating Wagner (and as you might have gleaned I do miss that stimulation
)Either way you will be grinning...but for rather different reasons....suffice either way you'll shape some memories that will be choice
Last edited by Bill_C4S; 12-25-2010 at 03:18 PM. Reason: Coz I should bloody well spell Hans Mezger's name right...
12-24-2010, 04:39 PM
#65
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Great thread. I faced a similar choice. In the end, my decision was based on my intent to use the car not as a DD but for trips with the wifey - beach, mountains, etc as well as the "occasional" DE/AX. With retirement looming, I hope to have plenty of available "travel time" and the GTS met my requirements better than the GT3. I ordered the GTS in a 6 spd in and opted for the 5 lug wheels.
I am enamored with the style/capability of the GT3, I just think road trips with the wife would be more accommodating in the GTS.
Best of luck to Cowhorn and which ever car he chooses.
Joe
I am enamored with the style/capability of the GT3, I just think road trips with the wife would be more accommodating in the GTS.
Best of luck to Cowhorn and which ever car he chooses.
Joe
12-24-2010, 08:14 PM
#66
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12-25-2010, 01:05 PM
#67
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What I said was that the benefits of the GT3 are largely irrelevant for the street, and I stand by that statement. Look at what you get with the GT3:
A true dry sump GT1 "Metzger" engine which allows you use slicks (which aren't even street legal) without fear of oil starvation issues. Not a benefit for a car which isn't tracked.
Larger brakes to avoid brake fade when you're braking down from 100+mph lap after lap after lap on the track. Not something you find yourself doing on the street.
A more adjustable suspension which allows you dial in negative camber for better cornering on the track, also turning the car into a nervous, twitchy, tire-eating monster. Great on the track, but not something you will find beneficial on the street.
A huge rear wing that provides more cornering downforce at speeds you'll never achieve on the highway (at least not under cornering load).
An aggressive front splitter that reduces lift at speeds you'll never approach on the street.
There are plenty of features on the GT3 which are invaluable on the track but they are largely irrelevant on the street. Unless you're going to take the car onto a track you're buying capabilities that you will never (or only very rarely) even be able to detect, much less enjoy. Even if you won't be bothered by the downsides you'll still never exploit the benefits.
At 8/10ths a GT3 really isn't that much different than a GTS. And you shouldn't be at 9/10ths on the street no matter how much of an enthusiast you are or how soul-satisfying you find the GT3 heritage. Sure, there's a great sense of occasion when you turn the key in a GT3, but a GTS is still a damn special car and a Porsche.
12-25-2010, 02:31 PM
#68
I think Nugget hit that one out of the park! Pretty hard to argue his post. ( exept maybe the "Metzger" part. It's "Mezger", right? As in Hans Mezger.)
Buy the GTS Cowhorn!
Phil
Buy the GTS Cowhorn!
Phil
12-25-2010, 03:17 PM
#69
Burning Brakes
Well put Nugget, and appreciate the vantage, but still wrestle with the absence of that GT1 ripping at 8400...which no matter what you do to the C2S you can't access.
Also, in getting a GT3 you acquire a real option on those attributes you cite, so if your mood were to shift and the siren call of a track lure you in...then voila, exercise it.
Another thought, admittedly not really a consideration for H-town, but if your DD entailed roads akin to the Blueridge Parkway, Stelvio Pass, Transfăgărăşan, or the Great Ocean Road...then the rather greater viscerality (feedback, immersion, responsiveness) of the GT3 would probably bring a rather greater smile than the GTS....
Damn tough, but fine choices.
Also, in getting a GT3 you acquire a real option on those attributes you cite, so if your mood were to shift and the siren call of a track lure you in...then voila, exercise it.
Another thought, admittedly not really a consideration for H-town, but if your DD entailed roads akin to the Blueridge Parkway, Stelvio Pass, Transfăgărăşan, or the Great Ocean Road...then the rather greater viscerality (feedback, immersion, responsiveness) of the GT3 would probably bring a rather greater smile than the GTS....
Damn tough, but fine choices.
12-25-2010, 03:40 PM
#70
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Sure, I speak from experience as well (check the signature…) but let's be clear -- I never said that you couldn't or shouldn't use a GT3 as a daily driver. Obviously, since I daily drive my GT3 I don't think that. Sure, there are annoyances and things about the GT3 which can pose challenges to daily driving, but those can be overlooked.
What I said was that the benefits of the GT3 are largely irrelevant for the street, and I stand by that statement. Look at what you get with the GT3:
A true dry sump GT1 "Metzger" engine which allows you use slicks (which aren't even street legal) without fear of oil starvation issues. Not a benefit for a car which isn't tracked.
Larger brakes to avoid brake fade when you're braking down from 100+mph lap after lap after lap on the track. Not something you find yourself doing on the street.
A more adjustable suspension which allows you dial in negative camber for better cornering on the track, also turning the car into a nervous, twitchy, tire-eating monster. Great on the track, but not something you will find beneficial on the street.
A huge rear wing that provides more cornering downforce at speeds you'll never achieve on the highway (at least not under cornering load).
An aggressive front splitter that reduces lift at speeds you'll never approach on the street.
There are plenty of features on the GT3 which are invaluable on the track but they are largely irrelevant on the street. Unless you're going to take the car onto a track you're buying capabilities that you will never (or only very rarely) even be able to detect, much less enjoy. Even if you won't be bothered by the downsides you'll still never exploit the benefits.
At 8/10ths a GT3 really isn't that much different than a GTS. And you shouldn't be at 9/10ths on the street no matter how much of an enthusiast you are or how soul-satisfying you find the GT3 heritage. Sure, there's a great sense of occasion when you turn the key in a GT3, but a GTS is still a damn special car and a Porsche.
What I said was that the benefits of the GT3 are largely irrelevant for the street, and I stand by that statement. Look at what you get with the GT3:
A true dry sump GT1 "Metzger" engine which allows you use slicks (which aren't even street legal) without fear of oil starvation issues. Not a benefit for a car which isn't tracked.
Larger brakes to avoid brake fade when you're braking down from 100+mph lap after lap after lap on the track. Not something you find yourself doing on the street.
A more adjustable suspension which allows you dial in negative camber for better cornering on the track, also turning the car into a nervous, twitchy, tire-eating monster. Great on the track, but not something you will find beneficial on the street.
A huge rear wing that provides more cornering downforce at speeds you'll never achieve on the highway (at least not under cornering load).
An aggressive front splitter that reduces lift at speeds you'll never approach on the street.
There are plenty of features on the GT3 which are invaluable on the track but they are largely irrelevant on the street. Unless you're going to take the car onto a track you're buying capabilities that you will never (or only very rarely) even be able to detect, much less enjoy. Even if you won't be bothered by the downsides you'll still never exploit the benefits.
At 8/10ths a GT3 really isn't that much different than a GTS. And you shouldn't be at 9/10ths on the street no matter how much of an enthusiast you are or how soul-satisfying you find the GT3 heritage. Sure, there's a great sense of occasion when you turn the key in a GT3, but a GTS is still a damn special car and a Porsche.
12-25-2010, 03:55 PM
#71
Race Car
Hmm, Nugget makes some good points. But now I wonder if even the GT3 is worth it for the track. Unless you're racing, all those upgrades are overkill for even the average DE. So might as well get the GTS.
12-25-2010, 05:15 PM
#72
I guess Nugget and other GT3 owners are the only ones who can comment, but isn't there more to the difference than features only discernable beyond 100 mph or on a track? Steering feel? Eager turn-in? The whole man machine interface?
I hope not, because I'm as guilty as anyone of wondering whether the grass is greener... especially having many empty mountain roads in my backyard... (bought a C2S for the back seats - but only use them maybe once a month)
I hope not, because I'm as guilty as anyone of wondering whether the grass is greener... especially having many empty mountain roads in my backyard... (bought a C2S for the back seats - but only use them maybe once a month)
12-25-2010, 08:36 PM
#73
One other thought. If you buy the GT3 used and it is not the car your loss will not be nearly as great as if you buy a GTS new and decide you want a GT3. My thought is that if you get the GTS the GT3 will always be in the back of your mind. A used GT3 will limit your risk better than a new GTS.
12-25-2010, 10:48 PM
#75
You guys certainly have a subjective discussion going here. All the high and low points have been covered. That only leaves my opinion:
In my garage, there is a 7.1 GT3 that is not necessarily a "DD" or a "Trak Hoe."
It is truly an "Attitude Adjustment Machine."
Always comfortable and quiet enough for me, and always ready for a go at most anything.
There are places for silence, but not in my GT3.
If you can't feel the road, you're in trouble.
Oh, about the GTS. Sorry, but I have no need to find out how fitting it may be.
What you have here is a die-hard, narrow-minded, sauerkraut eating, son of a German, GT3 nut.
In my garage, there is a 7.1 GT3 that is not necessarily a "DD" or a "Trak Hoe."
It is truly an "Attitude Adjustment Machine."
Always comfortable and quiet enough for me, and always ready for a go at most anything.
There are places for silence, but not in my GT3.
If you can't feel the road, you're in trouble.
Oh, about the GTS. Sorry, but I have no need to find out how fitting it may be.
What you have here is a die-hard, narrow-minded, sauerkraut eating, son of a German, GT3 nut.