blake

A post by ltc under the "dust removal" thread made me think... I live in Utah and have never seen water this hard! I have a black 964 and still stuggle with drying the car before the water is dry, leaving bits of white residue. The only solution is to wash the car again (I am similar to OCBen with his views on what I call "car clarity")

Has anyone used the Spotless Water System (www.crspotless.com) or any other brand? Do they really work? If so, I need to make the investment.

Thanks!
-B

dstrimbu

I need to do the same, B.

Griots has a "cheaper" solution - about $120 - but the cartridge is $100 for a replacement.

It definitely looks like the CRSpotless is a much heavier duty device, and probably has more capacity between cartridge changes.

-don

dstrimbu

BTW, a solid drying solution (I think that Deanski posted this first) is a leaf blower.

I picked up a cheap Toro ($40) and fitted a piece of 3M white furnace filter over the intake... works like a charm (especially around those darned tail-light gaps, which drip for an hour after a chamois wipedown). I cut the snout on the blower down to about a foot long - reduces velocity a bit, but makes it easier to use.

Also, the leaf blower works great for drying the wheels and brakes - which as you know can be a real bear...

Caveats:

1.) Make sure the floor in the garage is wet - you don't want to sandblast the car with dust and,
2.) Keep the nozzle a respectable distance from the paintwork.

Otherwise, I'm a believer in the leaf blower method. OTHO, the CRSpotless is in my future...

-don

OCBen

I plan on buying a portable water softener just for car washing in order to remove the harmful mineral deposits in hard water. Don't know how effective de-ionizers are at removing mineral deposits.

See my thread on car washing for tips and suggestions on dealing with hard water. Btw, the use of leaf blowers was discussed here long ago. I even point out some of the hazards and precautions when using such devices in the same thread.

Fred2

I use a CR spotless on my Black BMW.
It is not the perfect solution, but is WAY better than city water.

allegretto

There are two different, but not unrelated issues here.

Hardness and ionization. A softener will reduce water hardness but doesn't do much for ion content. You can use a de-ionizer after the water is suitably soft and this is what we are looking for. The water, after de-ionization will not tend to form beads and tends to run off, even on lightly pitched surfaces.

OCBen

Thanks for the clarification, Herman. So a de-ionizer breaks down the surface tension of the water allowing it to flow right off a surface with little accumulation in the form of water droplets? But it does nothing for the dissolved minerals that cause the harmful water spots?

Seems like it would speed up drying even though water droplets can still lead to those dreaded water spots in those tight hard to reach spaces. If I had to choose I would choose a water softener system over a de-ionizer. I don't mind drying, but I do mind those darn water spots.

I suppose the best solution might be a combo system like you're suggesting. But I'd be more concerned with the total cost -- equipment cost and cost of supplies over time.

blake

Per Herman's comments, I Googled both portable water softeners and de-ionizers. Both come in at the $299 price point. A combo system would really be cool. I guess i could buy both, using the water softner for wash water, and the de-ionizer for the rinse - but one machine would be ideal...

allegretto

Yes. A water softener is simply ion exchange. Usually Na and K are exchanged for Ca, Pb and other undesireables. Now the water is "wetter" and will clean things better but when it dries...you still have residue.

A de-ionizer will remove the offensive materials altogether, which leads to very low surface tension and causes water to not bead, but run off. Nice.

Now you might say, "just de-ionize and call it a day". And you can do that if the water is not too hard to begin. Works fine with Chicago water for example. But if the water is very hard, therefore filled with heavier metal ions, a de-ionizer will be less efficent. It's easy to remove the lighter ions than the heavy ones. I would think most Municipal water in large population areas would be sufficently soft to begin with, but of course exceptions will exist.

So if the water is pretty good to start with, a de-ionizer will be your best play if you only want to fuss with one device. But you can go double if you need to.

OCBen

Yeah the water here is So Cal is harder than the liquor. Specific gravity feels more like 1.2 with all those damn minerals in it.

Deven

I think that Arizona has the hardest watter of all places. Most homes have water softers here as the hard watter does much damage to all the water fixtures, dishwasher, washer, and even bothers people when taking showers.

My brother is most bothered by this problem, and as explained above, soft water does not do much for waterspots. He ended getting a large de-ionizer, but spots still form, but to a lesser extent. The weather is so dry here that the car fequently dries to fast to avoid the spots especially now during the summer. We have the leaf blower which helps.

The ultimate test is to buy distilled water, and wash, then rince with it. If spots still form, then there is no way that one will be able to avoid water spots. (We have yet to try this, but it will actually be cheaper to buy distilled water and use it with every wash rather than buying a de-ionizer, the problme is how to deliver the distiled water, unless one buys a porticle spray canister similar to what the Orkins people have to spray pestasides).

If anyone has any other suggestions, then I am all ears.......

allegretto

Actually, distilled water can contain many mineral contaminents. In the lab DI water when properly DI'ed is much "cleaner".

However if your water is too hard, asking a simple elctrical "push" against the gradient is not enough with the equipment that we practically have access to. Lab grade de-ionizers are expensive.

If AZ water is that hard, you need to double up with a softener and DI equipment. And it still may not be "clean" enough.

You'd think finding pure water would be easy. But it's such a good solvent that it is not at all easy.

OCBen

Hey Herman, I thought distilled water is pure and free of contaminants? Doesn't it come from condensed steam, by definition, and hence it's pure water molecules? ... Do you think contaminants can still seep in, especially if quality control is lacking?

frayed

I have the CRSpotless. Great buy. Works as advertised, and while not absolutely spotless on a black car, it's 90%.

The nice thing about it, is you don't have to wash your car like a maniac before the water dries. Just take your time and don't worry about spots. You can even wash in partial sunlight and not worry about quick drying water and spots.

allegretto

It really depends upon a lot of factors. But simply stated water is such an active solvent that, even if you have a reasonably pure solution from which to distill, if you distill it in a non-pure environment it picks things up in its gas (steam) phase too. You need pretty sophisticated equipment to take a run at it.

And every Organic Chem 101 student learns early that water "brings" things with it through the distillation process. Actually it's a basic experiment that they are asked to perform. It forms an "azeotrophic" solution, which is a mixture of water and its solute which boils at a slightly different temp than "pure" water. In the lab when you are preparing "Standards", that is solutions from which to measure other substances, you always use DI, never distilled. It's just not pure and neutral enough.

In the real world it is damn hard to make "absolute" water. And, the moment you let air in, it is such an active solvent that it ceases to be very pure.

The good news is that we don't need absolute water, just fair-good by Chemistry standards. Sounds like frayed has a system that's working.

On that note, what about Black cars guys? I have a clean shot at a drop-dead 997TT with PCCB, BUT IT"S BLACK, and I'm afraid it will never look clean...