Considering 2002 996 tt or 2007 S
10-06-2016, 10:05 AM
#47
Here goes....
here goes....
I think its a fair question. Both are 911 cars and in similar price points and similiar in performance levels (in stock form) so to the OP I think a valid question. Especially for someone that doesn't eat breath and sleep P cars like many of you here+myself that see a more clear difference between the two options.... late to the party in my reply as seen you bought a amazing 996tt, congrats, such a great car! Hope serves you well and you enjoy. So the rest of my reply maybe moot but why not...
Performance, well lets try this. These cars are VERY close in a straight line, closer then one may think. The posted 4.8 to 60 for the 997s is higher then I have seen and think 4.1+ more accurate + have seen lower. If we are talking a 997.2s (which can be bought for the same $ as a 996tt these days) or a 997.1S with X50 option you may see the 997 at the least keep pace with a 996tt none X50. Stock if you were to get these are on the twisties I think you would see a well equipped 997s with sport suspension pull away from a 996tt on most tracks. Maybe not a long track like a Nurburgring but most tracks here in the states.
well we all know a video doesn't mean much but this isn't a bad reference... can see the 996TT reeling him in. I dont think the 997 got the jump as much as the 996TT had some turbo lag.
No onward....The IMS issue spoken to in 997 cars exists primarily in the 05 997 and early 06 (but few) and not in the 07-08+cars. That said 996tt cars have their weak areas as well as sure many know. There is a solid fix for those worrying about the IMS in the early 997's like the IMS solution by jack Raby at flat6innovations.
To many the 997 has better styling (although subjective...) going back to the round headlamps and smoother lines..... To myself comparing a base 997s to a 996TT regards to styling is a no comparison given the wide body of the 996tt, and aero of 996tt looks great! That said...if we take a 997s with factory aerokit which is a fair comparison as such a car does fall inline with the price point of a 996tt and would give the nod to the 997 w/aero as far as asthetics/looks...... here is a pic of mine with factory ride height. (yes I have wheels but some great 997 oem wheel options)
Turbo lag... well some luv it and how that power comes on and others want the power there straight away. This is subjective.... I love when a turbo kicks in and that wooosh....but many a time happy my car has less a lag when I get on it. Have owned both turbo and none turbo P cars, enjoy both power deliveries albeit different.
Interior, well hopefully this is not up for debate...the 997 ahead on every level.
If someone wants to debate this then you just like to debate. 996tt not bad by any means just 997 is better...
New car usually means less head aches all things being equal. Newer model car also most times bring better things then prior years (many people don't note but they are likely going to be better) from MPG (yeah I said it....) likely better safety equipment from airbags to other, better/more advances abs system, better stereo, and on down the line...
Sound? Do we want to compare the sound of a NA car vs turbo? Deciding factor of course not but should be noted....exhaust note on a Porsche is special thing to many and the NA cars vs the Turbo cars have that nice sound lacking in the turbo cars...
The 997 is a lighter car in regards to weight, has the turbo breaks and believe would stop better.... feel free to correct me on this....
Car for car talking for the most part stock I think cross shopping or at least comparing is a fair question. If your goal is to mod the car and get more power the 996TT CRUSHES the 997 period. The 997 are hard to pull any more power out. My car (997s) has near 10K in mods and maybe I see an extra 25-30hp max!
I replied to point out some things and NOT to in anyway bash the 996TT cars as love them.... and often considered buying one, someday I may but for now sitting in a 997s.
OP again congrats on your new 996TT! Now powder coat them wheels and get modding!!!
I think its a fair question. Both are 911 cars and in similar price points and similiar in performance levels (in stock form) so to the OP I think a valid question. Especially for someone that doesn't eat breath and sleep P cars like many of you here+myself that see a more clear difference between the two options.... late to the party in my reply as seen you bought a amazing 996tt, congrats, such a great car! Hope serves you well and you enjoy. So the rest of my reply maybe moot but why not...
Performance, well lets try this. These cars are VERY close in a straight line, closer then one may think. The posted 4.8 to 60 for the 997s is higher then I have seen and think 4.1+ more accurate + have seen lower. If we are talking a 997.2s (which can be bought for the same $ as a 996tt these days) or a 997.1S with X50 option you may see the 997 at the least keep pace with a 996tt none X50. Stock if you were to get these are on the twisties I think you would see a well equipped 997s with sport suspension pull away from a 996tt on most tracks. Maybe not a long track like a Nurburgring but most tracks here in the states.
No onward....The IMS issue spoken to in 997 cars exists primarily in the 05 997 and early 06 (but few) and not in the 07-08+cars. That said 996tt cars have their weak areas as well as sure many know. There is a solid fix for those worrying about the IMS in the early 997's like the IMS solution by jack Raby at flat6innovations.
To many the 997 has better styling (although subjective...) going back to the round headlamps and smoother lines..... To myself comparing a base 997s to a 996TT regards to styling is a no comparison given the wide body of the 996tt, and aero of 996tt looks great! That said...if we take a 997s with factory aerokit which is a fair comparison as such a car does fall inline with the price point of a 996tt and would give the nod to the 997 w/aero as far as asthetics/looks...... here is a pic of mine with factory ride height. (yes I have wheels but some great 997 oem wheel options)
Turbo lag... well some luv it and how that power comes on and others want the power there straight away. This is subjective.... I love when a turbo kicks in and that wooosh....but many a time happy my car has less a lag when I get on it. Have owned both turbo and none turbo P cars, enjoy both power deliveries albeit different.
Interior, well hopefully this is not up for debate...the 997 ahead on every level.
If someone wants to debate this then you just like to debate. 996tt not bad by any means just 997 is better...
New car usually means less head aches all things being equal. Newer model car also most times bring better things then prior years (many people don't note but they are likely going to be better) from MPG (yeah I said it....) likely better safety equipment from airbags to other, better/more advances abs system, better stereo, and on down the line...
Sound? Do we want to compare the sound of a NA car vs turbo? Deciding factor of course not but should be noted....exhaust note on a Porsche is special thing to many and the NA cars vs the Turbo cars have that nice sound lacking in the turbo cars...
The 997 is a lighter car in regards to weight, has the turbo breaks and believe would stop better.... feel free to correct me on this....
Car for car talking for the most part stock I think cross shopping or at least comparing is a fair question. If your goal is to mod the car and get more power the 996TT CRUSHES the 997 period. The 997 are hard to pull any more power out. My car (997s) has near 10K in mods and maybe I see an extra 25-30hp max!
I replied to point out some things and NOT to in anyway bash the 996TT cars as love them.... and often considered buying one, someday I may but for now sitting in a 997s.
OP again congrats on your new 996TT! Now powder coat them wheels and get modding!!!
Last edited by mickfluff; 10-06-2016 at 09:06 PM.
10-06-2016, 05:53 PM
#48
Three Wheelin'
I literally just got back from taking my buddy for a ride in my lightly modded 996 Turbo. he owns a 2008 997 C4S with the X51 Power Kit -381hp. He was blown away by the performance of my car, esp. since he's driven stock 996 Turbos in the past. I run a spicy 1.0 bar 100 octane tune since I don't daily drive my car, but other than a tune all I have is a Kline 2.5" exhaust and billet diverters. He could not believe the amt. of torque my car produces.
Other feedback: He likes my 997 SSK after getting used to it. Felt that his 997 has better steering response. 997 marginally bigger on the inside. He has a modern double din radio setup with bluetooth (he commutes) and I'm all stock. Was very impressed with the handling and overall feel/tightness given my car is 15 years old and has 49K miles.
Overall he loved the 996 Turbo and was blown away with the performance, esp. with regards to bang for the buck.
I bet we'll see him in a 997.1 Turbo eventually, as he understands the Mezger legend.
Other feedback: He likes my 997 SSK after getting used to it. Felt that his 997 has better steering response. 997 marginally bigger on the inside. He has a modern double din radio setup with bluetooth (he commutes) and I'm all stock. Was very impressed with the handling and overall feel/tightness given my car is 15 years old and has 49K miles.
Overall he loved the 996 Turbo and was blown away with the performance, esp. with regards to bang for the buck.
I bet we'll see him in a 997.1 Turbo eventually, as he understands the Mezger legend.
10-06-2016, 08:59 PM
#49
Your mods add how more hp? 75? Comparing a modded 996tt raw power and torque to a stock 997s isn't quite fair. But as noted the one area the 996tt crushes the 997s is modding for power! If someone isn't into modding for power then think the 997 all around a better car for many reasons ...I wish more power could be pulled from the 997 buy only way is supercharging etc which IMO just too big a project.....
No question 996tt an great bang for the buck as you noted. BIG time
No question 996tt an great bang for the buck as you noted. BIG time
I literally just got back from taking my buddy for a ride in my lightly modded 996 Turbo. he owns a 2008 997 C4S with the X51 Power Kit -381hp. He was blown away by the performance of my car, esp. since he's driven stock 996 Turbos in the past. I run a spicy 1.0 bar 100 octane tune since I don't daily drive my car, but other than a tune all I have is a Kline 2.5" exhaust and billet diverters. He could not believe the amt. of torque my car produces.
Other feedback: He likes my 997 SSK after getting used to it. Felt that his 997 has better steering response. 997 marginally bigger on the inside. He has a modern double din radio setup with bluetooth (he commutes) and I'm all stock. Was very impressed with the handling and overall feel/tightness given my car is 15 years old and has 49K miles.
Overall he loved the 996 Turbo and was blown away with the performance, esp. with regards to bang for the buck.
I bet we'll see him in a 997.1 Turbo eventually, as he understands the Mezger legend.
Other feedback: He likes my 997 SSK after getting used to it. Felt that his 997 has better steering response. 997 marginally bigger on the inside. He has a modern double din radio setup with bluetooth (he commutes) and I'm all stock. Was very impressed with the handling and overall feel/tightness given my car is 15 years old and has 49K miles.
Overall he loved the 996 Turbo and was blown away with the performance, esp. with regards to bang for the buck.
I bet we'll see him in a 997.1 Turbo eventually, as he understands the Mezger legend.
10-07-2016, 12:53 AM
#50
Three Wheelin'
I agree, It's absolutely not fair to compare power levels. The 100 octane tune and decat Kline are worth at least 75-90 hp. No plans to dyno, but it sure as hell runs great for what it is (and it's datalogged and very safe)
The actual comparison is how much Porsche can you get for $50k-ish The 997.1 C4S was bought 4 or 5 months ago with 10k miles for mid 50s.
With maintenance and light mods I'm not quite mid 50s today but not too far off. But overall about the same money.
But, the Turbo isn't depreciating much if at all anymore--not so for a 997.1 C4S.
I too considered a 07 or 08 Carrera before I bought the Turbo, but in the end, for a weekend toy, the 996 was a perfect fit and I'll not be wanting more power any time soon. I didn't consider the depreciation factor 2 years ago but it's nice to know my car isn't going to lose much more value, esp since I only drive it 3K miles/year.
Two totally different cars indeedo.
Not everyone is a power junkie, and many would be thrilled with the 997s power and driving experience. I'm just not one of those guys.
The actual comparison is how much Porsche can you get for $50k-ish The 997.1 C4S was bought 4 or 5 months ago with 10k miles for mid 50s.
With maintenance and light mods I'm not quite mid 50s today but not too far off. But overall about the same money.
But, the Turbo isn't depreciating much if at all anymore--not so for a 997.1 C4S.
I too considered a 07 or 08 Carrera before I bought the Turbo, but in the end, for a weekend toy, the 996 was a perfect fit and I'll not be wanting more power any time soon. I didn't consider the depreciation factor 2 years ago but it's nice to know my car isn't going to lose much more value, esp since I only drive it 3K miles/year.
Two totally different cars indeedo.
Not everyone is a power junkie, and many would be thrilled with the 997s power and driving experience. I'm just not one of those guys.
Last edited by Road King; 10-07-2016 at 01:20 AM.
10-07-2016, 02:03 AM
#51
Rennlist Member
The 997 gets eaten at the track by a 966t with a tune and $2k worth of suspension.
A friend with stock PDK 991s was about equal to my 996t with PSS10s & tune. He would out brake me and get away out of slower corners, then I'd catch up. if we both were going full tilt, whoever was in front stayed in front.
10-07-2016, 05:28 AM
#52
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
With regard to the power issue, the ability to add horsepower and torque is the number one reason why I bought a 911 Turbo instead of non-boosted 911.
10-07-2016, 12:51 PM
#54
Rennlist Member
It's not necessarily a "debate" issue, it's a personal preference issue. And yes, there are peoploe who like the 996 Turbo's interior over the 997 interior. I'm one of them.
With regard to the power issue, the ability to add horsepower and torque is the number one reason why I bought a 911 Turbo instead of non-boosted 911.
With regard to the power issue, the ability to add horsepower and torque is the number one reason why I bought a 911 Turbo instead of non-boosted 911.
10-07-2016, 02:56 PM
#55
Rennlist Member
It's not necessarily a "debate" issue, it's a personal preference issue. And yes, there are people who like the 996 Turbo's interior over the 997 interior. I'm one of them.
With regard to the power issue, the ability to add horsepower and torque is the number one reason why I bought a 911 Turbo instead of non-boosted 911.
With regard to the power issue, the ability to add horsepower and torque is the number one reason why I bought a 911 Turbo instead of non-boosted 911.
The simple interior is refreshing if you regularly also drive a car with lots of modern "comforts".
Work with technology, then get in something with lots of it too.
Touchscreen, NAV, lots of buttons, adjustments and controls may feel comfortable or overload depending on the day/person.
The HP part is great either way:
Stock, they are still as fast as new stuff from most all other manufacturers.
Modded, they will be tough to pass by any new car.
10-07-2016, 03:16 PM
#56
Three Wheelin'
+1
The simple interior is refreshing if you regularly also drive a car with lots of modern "comforts".
Work with technology, then get in something with lots of it too.
Touchscreen, NAV, lots of buttons, adjustments and controls may feel comfortable or overload depending on the day/person..
The simple interior is refreshing if you regularly also drive a car with lots of modern "comforts".
Work with technology, then get in something with lots of it too.
Touchscreen, NAV, lots of buttons, adjustments and controls may feel comfortable or overload depending on the day/person..
10-07-2016, 10:54 PM
#57
Last 4+ Prefer the 996 interior over the 997 interior....
Based on that won't even try to to reply.
996tt amazing cars in many respects but come back to reality folks. By no
Means said the 996tt interior was bad but a huge step up in the 997 interior.
Broach the other topics. Pass.... 996tt best on every level in and out
Based on that won't even try to to reply.
996tt amazing cars in many respects but come back to reality folks. By no
Means said the 996tt interior was bad but a huge step up in the 997 interior.
Broach the other topics. Pass.... 996tt best on every level in and out
Last edited by mickfluff; 10-07-2016 at 11:14 PM.
10-07-2016, 11:36 PM
#58
Rennlist Member
Last 4+ Prefer the 996 interior over the 997 interior....
Based on that won't even try to to reply.
996tt amazing cars in many respects but come back to reality folks. By no
Means said the 996tt interior was bad but a huge step up in the 997 interior.
Broach the other topics. Pass.... 996tt best on every level in and out
Based on that won't even try to to reply.
996tt amazing cars in many respects but come back to reality folks. By no
Means said the 996tt interior was bad but a huge step up in the 997 interior.
Broach the other topics. Pass.... 996tt best on every level in and out
I'm going to pass on the 997 generation all together, for interior and tech updates, gotta have 991tt.
10-08-2016, 05:43 PM
#59
Yeah I almost didn't buy a 997 (have had two now) because was so let down that the interior was worse on the 997 vs the 996. The fine high grade materials left behind in the 996 for what ever they used in the 997 was such a let down. Let's also hope Porsche brings back the front headlight design from the 996 to newly being developed cars soon!
Last 4+ Prefer the 996 interior over the 997 interior....
Based on that won't even try to to reply.
996tt amazing cars in many respects but come back to reality folks. By no
Means said the 996tt interior was bad but a huge step up in the 997 interior.
Broach the other topics. Pass.... 996tt best on every level in and out
Based on that won't even try to to reply.
996tt amazing cars in many respects but come back to reality folks. By no
Means said the 996tt interior was bad but a huge step up in the 997 interior.
Broach the other topics. Pass.... 996tt best on every level in and out