Jeff_DML

Yes this is my first Porsche and have owned multiple BMW's so used to turning off the nannies on the track.

"02996ttx50

fully agree, i think it's that what was presumably their "target market" ( i dunno dr's/lawyers? ) needed the ( ahem ) "assistance" in much the same way, i DO feel i once was partially "saved" from crossing over the invisble and instantly occurring thin white line, that has the potential for leading us inexorably toward catastrophic driver error, which this car has the potential to do even when stock. in the wrong hands, of course.

also, wholly agree and echo your sentiments about the "gt car" reference. i am reminded of the 991s that very nearly drives itself. well, ...

thx for the clarification, i'm really hoping to get that pump unplugged over the weekend and anxious to really drive the car with it fully disabled. that's just the kind of thing i feel it needs next, in my quest to further tailor this car to suit my driving styles and conditions. in spite of the fact i was sideways less than 2 weeks ago thx again.

"02996ttx50

yeah, anxious to hear your take if you do this mod and track it. my last bmw the 07 335i's whose version of the ""Psm" or whatever they call it (which escapes me now ) also merely had that "disable" button to be used in conjunction with "sport mode" ( whatever ) but never, as i remember it? felt ( quite ) as intrusive as they do on this car.

Olemiss540

I can definately understand how intrusive the PSM can be on track, but have zero idea how it can be intrusive when turned OFF on mountain curves and the like.

How aggressive are you driving on public streets that the PSM being OFF is intrusive to the point of unplugging the system entirely?

Are you trail braking on a 70 mph highway? Can you explain how it is really obtrusive when it only intervenes under heavy braking? Never have fiddled with the PSM, but I usually save my 8/10th for the road coarse, so interested in what the fuss is about. Thanks,

Freddie Two Bs

You and me alike

"02996ttx50

i think the best way to answer is that i follow strictly and religiously the edict and "law" as written in the CA Vehicle Code handbook which posits that "one must never drive any faster than it is safe". for the record, the law is called the "Basic Speed Law", and is referred to again, as such in the CA driver's "handbook". this is of course subject and open to interpretation of "what is safe" and one persons assessment of "safe" not surprisingly, might be quite different than anothers.

to your other question, PSM intervenes in many other situations other than and even MORE often than "only" under "heavy braking". i can have it activate going around a 10 MPH corner posted with a "recommendation" 10 mph ( doesn't mean that is the "speed limit" ( again, the "basic speed law".. ( there are hundreds of these where i drive above the ocean in the mountains here ) and there is virtually ZERO traffic, ( although the roads tend to be mostly two lane blacktop ). but of psm's ability and propensity to activate as i describe? of that i can assure you. again, i ( and many others ) find it ( psm ) potentially quite intrusive, even during reasonably *normal* ( e.g. for a porsche turbo's ) daily driving conditions. a lot of this has to do with off camber, corners, and steep grades, particularly uphill ( though rwd changes this sensitivity *somewhat* ) which are nothing at all ( generally speaking ) than *most* road course situations where driving speeds are nearing triple digits, as one would find that take place on a dedicated track. road courses that are often held on "public" roads ( e.g. long beach grand prix in SoCal for example ) would ( i would think? ) also theoretically lead to quite a few instances also of psm intervention, absent hard braking.

i'm surprised that you haven't yet discovered that psm will intervene absent hard braking! that's kind of strange, but perhaps you'll discover the joy ( or lack thereof ) in your own car some day? you may then also reach the conclusion it can be or even *is* intrusive. this *may* also be directly proportional to one's experience with the car, coupled with driving conditions in which they mostly find themselves. or, at least this i have found to be so in my case. what's that saying again? "ymmv".

in conclusion, there really isn't any "fuss"? per se, some folks just don't like "psm", so they'd rather have it disabled.

add: another salient point to remember is, that even when turned "off" it activates and "resets" automatically after braking! so, it's really a pita to deal with a button that only *temporarily* de-activates psm. thought i should add that, as part of my answering you. it's terribly annoying, plain and simple lol.

walleye

Maybe this needs its own thread, but having owned my 996TT for about a year, it has some of the most unusual feeling "handling" of any car I've driven. I was a long-time Miata owner with stock suspension, a short 2 year stint in a 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 (stock), and now daily a 2006 Mini Cooper S (stock).

So, given that the 996TT handling IS weird (if it's a given... I think so), and some tweaking is needed to make it NOT weird. What does a first round of tweaking look like? I have no interest in tracking my car, but I would like to make the handling a lot less weird, but not at a significant cost to NVH or ride quality. I have no issue w/ the stock ride height, and I've never been a proponent of dropping a car from stock for any street performance reasons.

-Jeff

"02996ttx50

hey jeff..

i would say lowering the car, either with stiffer dampers along with stiffer "springs" ( or of course! coilovers etc..) maybe a gt3 sway on back.. a bit fatter ( gt2 ) tire size in the rear along perhaps w some 7x15 spacers to flush out the stance.

whole bunch of things that can simply and dramatically transform the car from vaguely "amphibious" ( my pet term for it's propensity toward "floatiness" in many situations ) to flatter, lower, and more squat and "stance" = mo betta.

i love mine dropped for street, but every aspect of what can/can't be done always will boil down to "personal preference". but i don't think you'll find too many people that don't agree that a "lowered" 996 turbo "properly" setup, will handle "better" than it will at stock ride height, settings etc. that's why porsche made the x73 option available as well as the gt2 setting(s) ( ride height, etc. ) for the rwd version of our 996 turbo's.

having said all of that! i wouldn't suggest anyone doing much if anything like this is one is driving over the say, washington bridge in NYC?! but if your "street" car lives in canyons? oh yeah.

Olemiss540

I wasn't trying to throw stones about the "legality" or "morality" of driving aggressively on the street, so no offense intended about that. Just trying to better understand PSM's function when switched off as my understanding was that it would not intervene under acceleration but only under heavy braking application when switched off in the cabin. Also, being stuck in the flatlands of Illinois, I do not have the pleasure of driving on some of the roads others get to enjoy frequently, so I do not have the experience of PSM being so intrusive. Thanks for the reply,

"02996ttx50

absolutely. where i am is virtually off road, it's quite literally federal park lands and ranches, so you can imagine. the roads are almost an exact duplication of pikes peak, and even tighter in many places.

yes, much of this cannot be experienced on flat roads such as city or suburban areas, so i now understand. i always tend to think of us all having a canyon or something being right out the door, and thats obviously not so. it's also the reason i've been able to take my car ( in terms of mods ) right to the virtual "edge" of ( what i consider ) to be it's "street ability" if you know what i mean. it HATES traffic for example.

btw and not for nothing, i realize i can be a bit cantankerous at times, and noticed that even you and i who have never so much as shared a notion here, began down that slippery slope i often travel here of contrarian. though in all honesty i truly never write what i do not "feel/think or "believe", i am like anyone not always either "right" or "wrong" it is not my intention to alienate or just "disagree" for the sheer contrariness of it..well,...

rambling side point is simply.. i'm glad we can simply converse in the manner in which this board is intended..and i never meant that other guy any harm either. although clearly i do enjoy the thrust and parry of debate..

but thank you for your civility and i will hopefully enjoy future discourse with you and even that other dude. there is far more on which we agree and share, than that which we do not. so cheers bud.

Road King

Jeff,
I think this does warrant a new post as I'd really like to understand what you're experiencing.

I'm almost 18 months into my Turbo (45K miles, stock suspension) and I would say it handles very well - and I'm coming from tuned WRX STIs that had excellent handling and grip. In short, I'm not having the same experience as you. I'm able to run my 911 up and down my favorite canyons at a pretty good pace and I have yet to experience anything that I would call poor handling or unpredictable. The AWD isn't nearly as dynamic as the STI's, and I almost never feel it pulling me out of corners.

IMO the stock suspension is soft (and tall) enough to soak up the rough back roads pretty well. I added some adjustable sway bars to dial out some of the understeer, and the car responded very well. It didn't fix all of the push, but made a huge difference. Where I think the car is a soft is in the high speed sweepers, but I spend so little time corner carving over 100mph it's really not worth addressing for my application.

BTW, I'm rarely seeing intervention from PSM. I can't speak for others, but it's not holding me back in the 30-90mph canyons I run.

I also invested in a good alignment at one of the Bay Area's top alignment specialists. When I bought the car it wouldn't go straight down the road, had a pretty good wander to the right. My guys at Custom Alignment have a ton of 911 experience and really dialed it in.

Jeff_DML

It is nice having the engine hanging off the opposite end

Olemiss540

+1. I was having some issue with the new to me TT last year feeling "floaty" and even dangerous, but I can say some new tires (Sumi HTR Z3) have fixed that issue. Car drives NICE now, and handles pretty dang good. Still doesn't feel as nimble as my e36, but much improved over the 6 year old PS2's that were worn down on the back wheels.

Olemiss540

Agree and look forward to the future discourse. These forums are a great part of the ownership experience as long as everyone's opinions remain respectful, and part of the pleasure is learning through disagreement. No hard feelings, my memory is too short to hold grudges.....

"02996ttx50

^ well put..i agree, thanks.