996TT for Street \ Track Use
07-01-2015, 08:09 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Scawt is correct with his advice above. To the OP, these cars stock don't make a very good track cars out of the box but can be made to be a lot of fun with a few well thought out mods for the occasional track day. The more serious you get about tracking it, the more you'll want to mod it. I would not waste money on the engine as power is not the issue. Your mod progression should include safety gear first including more supportive seats and harnesses which will allow you to focus on driving the car without having to struggle to stay in your seat. Next I would upgrade the brakes (cooling, fluid, pads) and finally the suspension which should include adjustable sway bars and more performance oriented coil overs. All of this can be done for around $5-7K for starters and the car will leave you smiling at the track every time you get in it. Last, but not least, spend a little money with a competent instructor (preferably one with race experience) that will give you some driving pointers and help you set these cars up. It's important to find someone that knows these cars. Beware of what you read on the forums as there is a lot of misinformation and bad advice. I didn't realize this until I had a pro driver take me under his wings a few years ago and completely revamp my whole car because it was so f'd up. The difference was night and day. You can turn these cars into absolute track monsters that nothing short of a well driven Cup car will touch but it will cost money. To reduce your lap times by the first few seconds is cheap, to reduce the last tenth or two is not. You can see some of the other track oriented mods in my signature. Be safe out there and above all, enjoy the car.
Thanks for bring up pro instruction. I'll look into this. With the DEs I have done so far with BMW and PCA, I can tell the quality of instruction varies widely.
07-01-2015, 09:12 PM
#32
Thanks, very helpful. I have limited garage space so I like the idea of the 996TT doing double duty as street and track, but afraid it's going to come up short and I'll end up with 2 cars anyway (weekend car + track car), and will have wasted time and money on the 996TT.
Thanks for bring up pro instruction. I'll look into this. With the DEs I have done so far with BMW and PCA, I can tell the quality of instruction varies widely.
Thanks for bring up pro instruction. I'll look into this. With the DEs I have done so far with BMW and PCA, I can tell the quality of instruction varies widely.
Two of us hired a pro coach. We ran about 6 hours, 1 warm-up lap and 4 hot laps, analyzed the video and went back out over and over again to get our driving lines consistently correct.
The best time and money spent.
07-02-2015, 06:08 PM
#33
Turbos are very tricky cars really based on my 1 year 10 track events lots of research , talks and learning from fellow 996tt owners and technicians .
They do have understeer surprisingly being AWD ,it's OEM suspension components , geometry, alignment are great but not as GT3.
My car is modified for track : jrz susp, 997ttt big brakes, bigger turbos , seats etc , and by no mean I'm a PRO , but a bmw 330 (unless a race car) could not keep up with my car.
But to track and really exploit the car's ability you will have to modify it.
And even then I still struggle a bit
And I do keep tracktion/abs on for safety .
And yes a instructor first few track days is a must.
Also It will take some time to really get the hang of your Porsche 996tt it's a heavy ,
Powerful turbo car , that understeers ,it's OEM brakes do fade, OEM seats do make you slide, OEM suspension is made for a mountains curvy roads
Not a race track intended.
They do have understeer surprisingly being AWD ,it's OEM suspension components , geometry, alignment are great but not as GT3.
My car is modified for track : jrz susp, 997ttt big brakes, bigger turbos , seats etc , and by no mean I'm a PRO , but a bmw 330 (unless a race car) could not keep up with my car.
But to track and really exploit the car's ability you will have to modify it.
And even then I still struggle a bit
And I do keep tracktion/abs on for safety .
And yes a instructor first few track days is a must.
Also It will take some time to really get the hang of your Porsche 996tt it's a heavy ,
Powerful turbo car , that understeers ,it's OEM brakes do fade, OEM seats do make you slide, OEM suspension is made for a mountains curvy roads
Not a race track intended.
07-02-2015, 10:13 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Driving instructor here with a lot of experience on many platforms. 996TT stock is still quite a fun track car and quite capable of keeping pace or leaving behind most dual duty track and daily driver cars. A 330i is not even in the same league, including in the corners, presuming the same tires. Powderhound is in the GT3 chasing world, which is another level and then some from most track day participants. His advice on the progression for car prep is great and I have nothing to add. However, the control system matters more than anything else (driver). Do the safety mods and get plenty of seat time in your car with PCA instructors and you will find the car has a lot of potential in stock form. Once that level is exhausted (you can drive the same times as red group instructors driving your car) then move on to the suspension modifications.
Once you get to the point where you replace the shocks, springs and sway bars, you will be keeping up with and passing some of the fastest cars out there driven by drivers with similar experience (Corvette C06,997S, 1M, 987S, etc).
Once you get to the point where you replace the shocks, springs and sway bars, you will be keeping up with and passing some of the fastest cars out there driven by drivers with similar experience (Corvette C06,997S, 1M, 987S, etc).
07-03-2015, 12:00 AM
#36
Three Wheelin'
Driving instructor here with a lot of experience on many platforms. 996TT stock is still quite a fun track car and quite capable of keeping pace or leaving behind most dual duty track and daily driver cars. A 330i is not even in the same league, including in the corners, presuming the same tires. Powderhound is in the GT3 chasing world, which is another level and then some from most track day participants. His advice on the progression for car prep is great and I have nothing to add. However, the control system matters more than anything else (driver). Do the safety mods and get plenty of seat time in your car with PCA instructors and you will find the car has a lot of potential in stock form. Once that level is exhausted (you can drive the same times as red group instructors driving your car) then move on to the suspension modifications. Once you get to the point where you replace the shocks, springs and sway bars, you will be keeping up with and passing some of the fastest cars out there driven by drivers with similar experience (Corvette C06,997S, 1M, 987S, etc).
To the OP: I completely understand a beginner on the track thinking the car is a pig. Trust me when I tell you it's you and not the car. These are fantastic track cars.
07-03-2015, 11:19 AM
#37
Nordschleife Master
Driving instructor here with a lot of experience on many platforms. 996TT stock is still quite a fun track car and quite capable of keeping pace or leaving behind most dual duty track and daily driver cars. A 330i is not even in the same league, including in the corners, presuming the same tires. Powderhound is in the GT3 chasing world, which is another level and then some from most track day participants. His advice on the progression for car prep is great and I have nothing to add. However, the control system matters more than anything else (driver). Do the safety mods and get plenty of seat time in your car with PCA instructors and you will find the car has a lot of potential in stock form. Once that level is exhausted (you can drive the same times as red group instructors driving your car) then move on to the suspension modifications.
Once you get to the point where you replace the shocks, springs and sway bars, you will be keeping up with and passing some of the fastest cars out there driven by drivers with similar experience (Corvette C06,997S, 1M, 987S, etc).
Once you get to the point where you replace the shocks, springs and sway bars, you will be keeping up with and passing some of the fastest cars out there driven by drivers with similar experience (Corvette C06,997S, 1M, 987S, etc).
Totally agree.
Based off that the op is a beginner and has a completely stock car. I believe the issue is driver experience and tires. You can't compare a well setup 330i with an experienced driver at the helm and driving on R compounds or slicks to a beginner driver on street tires.
OP should work on seat time and getting comfortable with the car before making the car more capable to compensate for lack of driving skill. You should not even care about others right now. Work on improving your driving and compare only to your self right now.
07-03-2015, 11:44 AM
#38
cbracerx offers good advice. Modifying the adjustable nut behind the steering wheel is always the best mod you can make.
I think the 996TT is a very nice dual purpose car. After 10 years of tracking/street driving a 993 and 4 years of tracking/street driving an E36 M3 previous to that I bought my 996TT last fall to be my new track/street car. Last weekend I completed my second DE in the 996TT with the BMWCCA and had a blast. I had no problem passing other instructors in E46 M3s with ease and could keep up and pass E90 M3s with a little effort. E36 M3s and 330s were rolling chicanes for me. My 996TT came with X73 suspension, some 3 way adjustable rear sway (I have set to the middle position) and Powderhounds Ruf Turbo brake calipers and 350mm rotors all around. For the track I added Michelin Pilot Sport Cups in stock sizes and Performance Friction PFC06 pads to the mix. I am very happy with the setup as is and don't plan on any further modifications. I took out another instructor who was amazed at the amount of grip the car had in the corners. I know that I have more to gain in the car as I get more comfortable and confident with it.
After swapping back to street tires and brake pads my wife and I loaded up the car with some luggage and trekked 13 hours from Omaha to Cleveland in the 996TT this week to attend my brothers wedding. The car provided a very comfortable ride on the freeway. I returned 26mpg with the AC going. I don't think I would have ever made that trek in my 993.
I think the 996TT is a very nice dual purpose car. After 10 years of tracking/street driving a 993 and 4 years of tracking/street driving an E36 M3 previous to that I bought my 996TT last fall to be my new track/street car. Last weekend I completed my second DE in the 996TT with the BMWCCA and had a blast. I had no problem passing other instructors in E46 M3s with ease and could keep up and pass E90 M3s with a little effort. E36 M3s and 330s were rolling chicanes for me. My 996TT came with X73 suspension, some 3 way adjustable rear sway (I have set to the middle position) and Powderhounds Ruf Turbo brake calipers and 350mm rotors all around. For the track I added Michelin Pilot Sport Cups in stock sizes and Performance Friction PFC06 pads to the mix. I am very happy with the setup as is and don't plan on any further modifications. I took out another instructor who was amazed at the amount of grip the car had in the corners. I know that I have more to gain in the car as I get more comfortable and confident with it.
After swapping back to street tires and brake pads my wife and I loaded up the car with some luggage and trekked 13 hours from Omaha to Cleveland in the 996TT this week to attend my brothers wedding. The car provided a very comfortable ride on the freeway. I returned 26mpg with the AC going. I don't think I would have ever made that trek in my 993.
07-03-2015, 12:04 PM
#39
Drifting
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The great Republic of Texas
Posts: 2,097
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
4 Posts
Mine is a heavily modified 02' X50 (GT3 leather buckets, 6-point harness, UMW tune, UMW turbos, Speedtech X-flow exhaust, GT3 front and rear sway bars and links, heavy springs, Moton CS suspension, Girodisc slotted rotors, Pagids all around, Castrol SRF, GT3 LWFW, solid tranny and motor supports, trick short-ratio tranny with Porsche Motorsports parts and GT2 style oil cooler, etc...).
My car is faster that a 997.1 GT3 RS on track, can give a GT2RS a very decent run for it's money (similar experience drivers). The driver is the key element here. At COTA last year I lapped a 2013 McLaren MP4-12C. On my 13 y/o car.
For those who don't track your Turbo, trust me, you'll NEVER quite realize their true potential.
My car is faster that a 997.1 GT3 RS on track, can give a GT2RS a very decent run for it's money (similar experience drivers). The driver is the key element here. At COTA last year I lapped a 2013 McLaren MP4-12C. On my 13 y/o car.
For those who don't track your Turbo, trust me, you'll NEVER quite realize their true potential.
Last edited by jbossolo; 07-03-2015 at 08:30 PM.
07-03-2015, 12:23 PM
#40
Burning Brakes
Lots of generalizations here. As I understand it (I'm new to the 996TT, but not to track cars) the US suspension setup is going to be a challenge on the track. A ROW suspension setup/X73 is a better starting point. The chassis moves from understeer toward neutral.
The trick is finding an X73 setup, as they appear to be hen's teeth. That leaves the aftermarket solutions, and each brand (religion) has its advocates.
From the OP's initial post (and as a general rule of thumb), it seems to me that seat time is the component that will likely make the most difference.
The trick is finding an X73 setup, as they appear to be hen's teeth. That leaves the aftermarket solutions, and each brand (religion) has its advocates.
From the OP's initial post (and as a general rule of thumb), it seems to me that seat time is the component that will likely make the most difference.
07-03-2015, 12:43 PM
#41
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Having said all that I agree that a stock 996TT car is fine for a novice track enthusiast. Fix the nut behind he wheel before worrying about mods. Just weld or pin the cooling pipes first. :-)
!["02996ttx50's Avatar](data:image/svg+xml;utf8,<svg xmlns='http://www.w3.org/2000/svg' viewBox='0 0 50 50'><circle class='avatar-circle-default' fill='%23759d7b' cx='25px' cy='25px' r='20px'></circle><text class='avatar-text-default' x='49%' y='53%' fill='white' text-anchor='middle' alignment-baseline='middle'>"</text></svg>)
07-03-2015, 10:21 PM
#43
Nordschleife Master
The best modification you can do is a proper setup even with all factory parts much can be improved. The Zero front Camber is pretty ridiculously low from the factory which is why aftermarket springs seem to really help as they naturally increase this number.
That being said, most of the time its the driver.
I once passed a 996TT in a N/A 944 and the driver told me my Tires "R6 Hoosiers" gave me a massive advantage in the corners.
I can tell you my 6 year old rock hard Hoosiers did me no favors as they started to literally fall apart, My snow tires would have had more grip. The cars 800# front springs and factory rear torsion + 200lbs springs were note even close to balanced, The car was running with no sway-bars and the rear brakes didn't even work. I had put the car togeather to go run from a bare shell (no engine/Trans/Suspension) in 18 or so hours of labor. I fell asleep under the car aligning it before the track day.
However, my 1:28 at Putnam was clearly because of my "Tires" and that is a horrible time for a 996 TT he should be like 1:22 on street tires as a decent driver in a stock car.
That being said, most of the time its the driver.
I once passed a 996TT in a N/A 944 and the driver told me my Tires "R6 Hoosiers" gave me a massive advantage in the corners.
I can tell you my 6 year old rock hard Hoosiers did me no favors as they started to literally fall apart, My snow tires would have had more grip. The cars 800# front springs and factory rear torsion + 200lbs springs were note even close to balanced, The car was running with no sway-bars and the rear brakes didn't even work. I had put the car togeather to go run from a bare shell (no engine/Trans/Suspension) in 18 or so hours of labor. I fell asleep under the car aligning it before the track day.
However, my 1:28 at Putnam was clearly because of my "Tires" and that is a horrible time for a 996 TT he should be like 1:22 on street tires as a decent driver in a stock car.
07-04-2015, 12:11 AM
#44
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks everyone for the input. I know that I have a lot to learn as a driver, and I know that I'm not getting the most out of the car, and that driver improvement is the best investment, but having owned 30+ cars, I also know that this car stock, even on the street doesn't seem as fun (for me personally) to drive as my GT-R, my C6 vette, my Challenge Stradale, my E90 M3. Part of getting out on the track is to improve skill, but part of it is also having fun.
Just trying to figure out if this is the platform I want to continue on (either stock for a while or with a few mods to make it a bit more enjoyable), or if an E46 M3 or a C5 Z06 is a better fit for me, more fun per dollar, less on the line should something happen.
When comparing the cost of running the 996TT to say either of the above cars, harnesses and safety gear and brake upgrades are all roughly the same in my mind, but I don't need to weld the coolant lines on an M3 or Z06 and the suspension upgrades for either of those cars (in particular the Z06) seem less costly. I guess I'm a sucker for naturally aspirated engines too at the end of the day.
Just trying to figure out if this is the platform I want to continue on (either stock for a while or with a few mods to make it a bit more enjoyable), or if an E46 M3 or a C5 Z06 is a better fit for me, more fun per dollar, less on the line should something happen.
When comparing the cost of running the 996TT to say either of the above cars, harnesses and safety gear and brake upgrades are all roughly the same in my mind, but I don't need to weld the coolant lines on an M3 or Z06 and the suspension upgrades for either of those cars (in particular the Z06) seem less costly. I guess I'm a sucker for naturally aspirated engines too at the end of the day.
