tlarocque

^THIS

Although I may unfortunately be selling my X50 soon, I absolutely love it compared to the 2001 Turbo I had in stock form. Not going to speculate on whether or not 996 Turbos are going to appreciate but, if they do and they follow other Porsches that have gone up in value, the more factory performance upgrades, the better. Along the same lines, I see/hear people complain about the PCCBs, but I'll take make 6-piston fronts any day.... it makes me happy just looking at them.

OP... I have a nice car, PM if interested.

dprantl

An ECU flash can take your stock 0.7 bar boost to 1.2 bar or even more. Adding just over 70% more boost can give you almost +100 flywheel HP. I have done lots of research on ECU tunes in the last couple of months and have reviewed many dyno charts, and (at least for the 996TT), this kind of gain is possible. This is on a non-X50. The X50 stock starts of at a higher level of boost (about 0.9 - 1.0 bar max), so there is less improvement to be made when going to 1.2 bar modified, since that is only a 20% - 30% increase in boost.

Dan

"02996ttx50

***

"02996ttx50

there are no "off the shelf" 1.2 tunes for a non x50 = k16 car. in fact, *most* 1.2 tunes for k24 turbos are actually in reality 1.1.5 bar tunes. you'd have to do the psi conversion. but again, if you're talking a flash alone? without other supporting mods? no k16 car is going to boost to 1.2

if you want to ever see 1.2 ( which is dramatically more boost than the k16 car, don't kid yourself ) with only an ecu flash? then you had better begin with a k24 equipped car.

"02996ttx50

^THIS

dprantl

An EVOMS Stage 2 kit (just an example of a flash kit, there are many others out there) brings a stock K16 car to 1.2 bar which includes a FabSpeed exhaust. I was under the impression that a stage 1 kit will boost the same, just provide a smaller power increase due to the more restrictive exhaust?

Dan

rmc1148

I thought the same but I'm no expert.

wross996tt

The issue isn't what boost you can get on K16 (which you can get 1.2), the issue is that it likely does not increase power...probably the max "useable" boost for K16 is 1.0 +/-.1...they heat soak after that.

That being said, you also get lag from the stock K24s...so pick your poison...or as many have done go hybrid...LOL

"02996ttx50

well, i can't speak to "one "stage" over another although many tuners of the 96t platform all use the same parts in a fairly time honored progression of parts in ever increasing available power numbers.

this is my cars tuner and the link show the various "stages" as they were first conceived ten+ years ago. they work on cars not their website lol,so little has changed. but for reference http://www.thespeedgallery.com/996tt_engine.shtml

but in very general terms and again ( absent OTHER add'l supporting mods? )

k16 cars flashed are good for 1.0, and k24 ( or in my car 16/24's hybrids ) are good for 1.2/1.3. beyond that one needs injectors better i/c's than the x50/gt2 old ones etc etc.

but again, for a tune and exhaust which is what many reasonable folks go and even stay with ( well.... LOL! )

1.0 boost on k16 w flash and 1.2 on k24/x50 w flash and again, its a HELLUVA difference btw the two. ya gotta trust me on that

by way of example, my setup is a mix of tis stuff and I'm now rwd 600HP KIT - $10,995
The Speed Gallery 600HP KIT Includes the following components
- STAGE 1 +
- Speed Gallery 16/24 Turbochargers
- Speed Gallery Headers
- T-Body
- Wastegate Upgrade
- ECU

and this:
Speed Gallery 650HP KIT - $15,995
The Speed Gallery 650HP KIT Includes the following components
- STAGE 1 +
- Speed Gallery Garrett Turbochargers
- Speed Gallery Headers
- T-Body
- Wastegate Upgrade
- Turbo Air Inlet Pipes and Plenum
- 5.4 Bar Fuel Regulator
- High Flow Fuel Filter
- GT2 Fuel Pump
- Spark Plugs
- Speed Gallery/SACHS Clutch Kit (Required) - ECU

"02996ttx50

ding ding ding. exactly. what I've done. best of both worlds and i never yearn for moah powah since i'm only hill climbing etc.. though i do sometimes dream of a28's +++++ lol

with the evoms kit(s) you ned to be at stage 4! and even that is missing stuff! that maxflo air box and inlet piping? well, it's part of it? but kevin umw's kits are far more inclusive unless he does them piece by piece.

point is, all these tuners have the similar parts in staged-stepped up values and are using CRANK number in their hp estimates. no way you're getting 700whp on k16's from evo's stage 4 kit. whereas kevins ( far as i know? ) umw's stage 2B(?!) or speed gallery's top tier "stages" will get you much *closer* in whp

add: wross, that info was obviously not directed to you. you be in the game long time ha

dprantl

I find it useful to add verifiable data to any such discussion to make it more objective. From the K16 pressure map printed by KKK themselves, it seems the maximum flow is achieved at almost exactly 1.2 bar (pressure ratio of 2.2) when the turbo impeller spins at 140k RPM. Max flow at that level of boost is ~0.18 m3/s = 381 cfm = 26.3 lb/min. So each K16 can put out about 263hp max in ideal conditions with no upstream/downstream restrictions/bottlenecks. That's 526hp for two of them @ 1.2 bar of boost. Trying to extract any more from stock K16's will not appreciably increase flow and therefore power.



Dan

cdk4219

Well, I personally think it is no fun. It is a very narrow powerband, and pretty useless in first gear. For daily driving the stock car would definately be better. My wife ( who now drives the car) seems fine with it, so I guess it's all relative to your expectations. My CtsV, E55, SL55, LS1 240Z are all much more fun as daily drivers, I don't appreciate the lag that the X50 car has.

Dock

Great post.

Dock

I agree.

There is a reason Porsche has put great effort into reducing turbo lag over the years.

"02996ttx50

Yeah lag is a drag but not a deal breaker. An x50 equipped car is the better equipped car from my experience which also speaks to Dans point replete with charts.

I don't need charts, I've had both turbo equipped cars. You of course are entitled to arrive at your own conclusions however you like, but they do little to diminish mine.

Again, addressing dans point, sorry. Not your agreeance, per se.