dragon919

Looking at a 2002 TT with 124k miles. Price may be good. Basic PPIs are 2-300. More thorough PPIs including leak-down tests are 8-900+. If everything seems fine... are the leak-down tests really necessary? I have a couple of independent shops in mind for this, but if you have some in Orange County, CA that would be great too. I'm not sure what the leak-down tests do, but if things were bad wouldn't they throw an error on the computer? Thanks for helping a Porsche n00b!

996TWINS

Check out HRG in Lake Forest.

MoeMistry

I'd highly recommend Cape Auto Repair in Laguna Niguel. James is a great guy and supports the club as a sponsor and autox sponsor as well. Also, let us know if we can help do a ppi. Our ppi includes cosmetic and mechanical as Cape Auto will do the mechanical portion. A simple ppi from us is about $300, that includes mechanical and cosmetics.

It may sound rather odd, but doing a cosmetic ppi is just as important as a mechanical ppi. Someone who takes great care of their car mechanically, also is a stickler for caring for things cosmetically. Food for thought

Macster

A leak down test is not necessary. In fact it can give you bad information. Just a reminder a leak down test is used for when there is some problem and to help identify where the problem might lie without having to open up the engine.

For instance is the problem with the cylinder/rings or the intake valves or the exhaust valves.

A leak down test won't even tell you if the engine runs or not.

What I have been advised and what I recommend is you first experience the car as a passenger then as a driver.

Visit the car cold and confirm upon engine start all warning lights come on then go off, especially the CEL.

Turn off the A/C. You will check this later. The A/C on runs the radiator fans and you want the engine to get as warm as it can while you are checking the engine out.

Start the engine and let it idle. Listen to the engine. Now you need some experience to know what a healthy Turbo engine sounds like. The Turbo is a bit tricky because to the inexperienced ear it can sound a bit rough/ragged upon cold start.

But you should hear no ticking, knocking, or other deep sounds. What you should hear is just the usual IC reciprocating engine sounds.

Let the engine idle and warm up while you walk around the car. You are looking the car over but you are also listening to the engine from various points around the compass for any bad sounds.

After some idling -- ideally long enough to check the oil level -- then have the seller take you on a test ride. 15 miles. A variety of roads. You want to experience the car like you will use it. Within reason of course.

After the engine is good and warm have the driver perform a hard acceleration run from near idle in a low gear to near redline and then after the upshift keeping his foot planted.

The engine should pull good and hard but smooth. Boost should touch 0.7 bar but be aware it drops off as rpms climb, this is normal.

Back at the starting point then you take the car out as the driver. Same route. Drive the car the same way.

The idea is to really experience the car in its natural environment. With the engine running and the car being used.

This gives the DME a chance to complete all readiness tests on the O2 sensors, converters, misfire detection, knock sensors, etc.

Now the misfire detection system is a compression test/leak down test system. The DME constantly measures the speed of the flywheel at each cylinder's power stroke, notes the acceleration imparted to the flywheel and if it find this too low (or too high) will log a misfire error code.

You do not want to the CEL to come on during the test ride or drive. This is why the ride/drive route should be 15 miles or so and taken twice. While this is not foolproof if the engine (and the car) can make it through this test ride/drive step without the CEL coming on, the battery voltage dropping, the oil pressure warning light coming on, the engine getting to hot, etc, the odds are the engine and the car are ok, at least mechanically.

course you should have some service records to show you the car received good care to go along with the problem free test ride/drive.

After the above then give the car a thorough used car checkout.

Assume nothing works until you verify it does.

If after all of the above you still want the car then have it PPI'd. This comes after the test ride/drive for this gives any leaks a chance to well, leak. The inspection will have a better chance of spotting a leak after the car has been used some.

The PPI also checks and does other things too.

There is no substitute for actually running the engine driving the car to get a good feeling about the condition of the car.

Netiher a compression test or a leak down test will tell you the engine even runs. And neither test can tell you if a rod bearing is knocking, the engine has low oil pressure, overheats, and so on.

C2 Turbo

I had ^ these guys do a PPI on a 996 TT while I was shopping for a Turbo and their attention to detail was second to none/mind boggling.

I don't remember how much I paid for it but it was the best money I have ever spent on a PPI.

Look at my new thread that I just started about PPI

2K7TTMIA

$250 for the HRG PPI was worth its weight AND a couple grand in repairs it saved from a purchase.

PORSCHE_TECH

A PPI is a very good idea but you don't have to fork out lots of cash for it. It is a very intensive inspection, but if you find the right tech it should be around $100. The 911 996 turbo models in general are very reliable. They dont have many issues just remember to keep up on services and good fuel.

C2 Turbo

So how much would you charge for a PPI like this

flavorPacket

So says the detailer!

I disagree with this 100%. I drive my car every day and park it outside regularly - so it's filthy. However, it is in perfect mechanical condition.


To the OP - Callas Rennsport in Torrance can do a good PPI. Talk to Tom or Tony.

turbo4 me

You definitely need a PPI. You should be able to get a pretty thorough one for $300 to $400.

For a car with 124k on the clock, I would probably get at least a compression check; if all cylinders are within 5%, check that off. You definitely want to know type 1 and type 2 overrevs (the shop can run a report out of the DME). A car with high type 2s should be avoided IMO.

Finally, I am curious as to why you locked in on this particular car with 124k. With that kind of mileage, you should be paying probably low 30s. There are lots of lower mileage cars out there.

dragon919

Thanks everyone! I test drove this car today. It's an automatic, which is necessary for the wife. That being said, the turbo didn't kick like I thought it might. Is that normal? I tried it with both auto and "manual" and although it is quick, and there is a small "kick" from the turbo, but nothing crazy. Do you think something is wrong?

Other than that, there's nothing wrong with the car. Again, this is a very good price if everything checks out. I will have at least the basic PPI done, but I'm not sure yet about the compression test.

Anyone have any input on this car's non-kicking-turbo?

turbo4 me

If it doesn't make your head snap back, there's something wrong and you shouldn't waste any more time or money on that car.

Macster

You really have to floor the gas pedal.

What did you see for a boost number?

Now I've never driven a Turbo with a Tip but with my 6-speed if I floor the gas pedal at say just under 3K rpms the boost comes on and rises to 0.7bar and remains there a while then as rpms climb to over 4K drops off. It helps to be in a higher gear. A lower gear means the car gains speed so quickly that by the time max. boost is present rpms are climbing so quickly -- and one's hands are full driving the thing -- that the boost can drop.

What it takes for one to see max. boost numbers with the Tip I can't say.

As I covered in an earlier post with a good test ride/drive you shouldn't need to do a compression test. Whether the lack of larger kick from the Turbo is just your lack of familiarity with the car and you failed to demand max. boost or if the Turbo's "sick" I can't say.

Did you have the seller take you for a test ride? He should have and he should have demo'd hard acceleration during which max. boost should have been obtained. If he didn't or couldn't at that time you should have asked him why the vehicle doesn't do this or why he didn't do it.

dragon919

I wasn't looking at the console while driving -- just trying to make sure everything was safe on the road. I also didn't ask the seller to drive me since it seemed like he was busy. I was able to ask the shop to look into this specifically. I got the preliminary results from the PPI and listed them below. I've asked for further inspection of the oil leak and for costs of the items that I've "*"/starred below. Any of the below seem like a red flag to anyone, or just normal wear & tear items for a 124k miles car?

- sunroof sticking
* front tires were made in 2008 so should be changed; good tread
* rear tires are worn out
- front brake pads 7mm left = good
- rear brake pads 4 mm left = 2-6 months left
* 1 transmission mount is cracked
* 2 engine mounts are cracked
*** oil leak from transmission getting on water hoses & could eat away at the water hoses (needs to inspect further)
- light oil on front differential
* left tie rod boot is broken so should replace both rear sides & then do alignment (will get quote on this)
- plastic undercar panel is cracked

kent

The car looks like nothing major from the list. Good luck.