996 Turbo as a winter daily driver
10-27-2012, 05:08 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
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996 Turbo as a winter daily driver
The 997 Turbos are still out of my price range and while I don't think it is time yet to put my 1999 Jeep Wrangler down as my winter daily driver (I live in Calgary Alberta where snow and icy roads are the norm for 5+ months of the year), but my Jeep is beginning to show it's age. I am experiencing problems starting the Jeep and it has been traced to a failing ECM/PCM module and I am told that they do not make ECM/PCMs for my model and year anymore. I will be trying a replacement ECM/PCM from a wrecked Jeep to see if that solves my problems. But it also got me thinking what should I use as a winter daily driver when it is time to put the Jeep down. Now I absolutely love driving my Jeep on the white slippery stuff. Believe it or not, most of the time I am driving in rear wheel drive mode and when other cars are not around I purposely induce power on oversteers for ****s and giggles and of course to practice recovering from the oversteer moments. I only ever drive in four wheel drive mode when I need to get up a icy hill or need to get off the line at a red light on snow/ice without spinning up the rears too much. But I have also had to do some costly repairs to my Wrangler in the 12 years I have owned it (it is a Chrysler) and it has me thinking maybe my next winter daily driver should be something different.
Now I hate front wheel drive automatics. I would rather take public transit than be forced to pay for a front wheel drive automatic. I love rear wheel drive cars but they are not the best to be using getting up icy hills. So it has me thinking I need either find a rear wheel drive car that can be switched to four wheel drive on the fly like my Jeep does, or just bite the bullet and get an all wheel drive car. Now the Porsche 996 Turbo is all wheel drive, but is not the most practical winter daily driver. But since this is a Porsche forum, I have to ask (because I know there are people out there that drive their Turbos on the snowy/icy roads) how do they handle on the white slippery stuff? Is there a lot of understeer? Wheel spin? Are you paranoid of being rear ended? Of course if I do need to replace the Jeep and a 996 Turbo not being the most practical, maybe I should be looking at something along the lines of a Subaru WRX STi or it's competitor the Mitsubishi EVO GSR. Cars that evolved from the world of rally racing have got to be a decent choice for winter daily drivers?
Now I hate front wheel drive automatics. I would rather take public transit than be forced to pay for a front wheel drive automatic. I love rear wheel drive cars but they are not the best to be using getting up icy hills. So it has me thinking I need either find a rear wheel drive car that can be switched to four wheel drive on the fly like my Jeep does, or just bite the bullet and get an all wheel drive car. Now the Porsche 996 Turbo is all wheel drive, but is not the most practical winter daily driver. But since this is a Porsche forum, I have to ask (because I know there are people out there that drive their Turbos on the snowy/icy roads) how do they handle on the white slippery stuff? Is there a lot of understeer? Wheel spin? Are you paranoid of being rear ended? Of course if I do need to replace the Jeep and a 996 Turbo not being the most practical, maybe I should be looking at something along the lines of a Subaru WRX STi or it's competitor the Mitsubishi EVO GSR. Cars that evolved from the world of rally racing have got to be a decent choice for winter daily drivers?
Last edited by My993C2; 10-27-2012 at 05:32 PM.
10-28-2012, 02:32 AM
#2
Drifting
My '99 Cherokee is still going strong and is in my 13th year as a DD. It will be this winter as well. I love driving it, almost as much as my Turbo.
Sorry I can't answer your question if the Turbo will be a nice winter car, I'll only take mine out if the roads are dry. My car's from Las Vegas and still looks new underneath. I'llkeep it that way. I have looked at the new Subaru XV recently and it looks real nice at 33 mpg for when and if I retire my Cherokee.
Sorry I can't answer your question if the Turbo will be a nice winter car, I'll only take mine out if the roads are dry. My car's from Las Vegas and still looks new underneath. I'llkeep it that way. I have looked at the new Subaru XV recently and it looks real nice at 33 mpg for when and if I retire my Cherokee.
10-28-2012, 09:25 PM
#3
I am curious too. I own a Volvo XC60 and was wondering if I should use the Turbo rear round and just put the money from the Volvo into my bank account?
How much of a depreciation hit I would get for using the car 12months vs summer only???
How much of a depreciation hit I would get for using the car 12months vs summer only???
10-28-2012, 09:49 PM
#4
I think with good winter tires it will do OK. I have no experience either, since mine is a summer and sunny weather 996TT.
However, I think that ground clearance will not be good for probably anything more than a couple of inches.
However, I think that ground clearance will not be good for probably anything more than a couple of inches.
10-29-2012, 11:59 AM
#5
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I made a similar thread in the "Canada" forum and got some good feedback there. Plus on Saturday night I was sort of forced to take my 993C2 complete with it's summer tires out on the road with snow on the ground due to problems with my Jeep and I was surprised (but shouldn't really have been surprised) at how well the rear engine 911 handled the white slippery stuff (meaning an all wheel drive Turbo or C4 would be even better). The consensus was, as long as you have winter tires on the 911 it will be fine. Clearance could be an issue on days where a lot of snow has fallen and deep ruts have developed. But one thing that could be a real deal breaker is I would be paranoid of being rear ended driving on the white slippery stuff. Being rear end is always a risk with winter driving, but most cars don't have the engine in the rear.
10-29-2012, 03:59 PM
#6
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Hello from Calgary. My 996TT was my winter car last year, it's perfect for our winters. I wrote up a couple of articles on it:
http://www.beyond.ca/update-1-porsch...car/10890.html
I replaced it with a 2012 CLS 550 4Matic this year, not as much fun as the 996TT, but I needed the more passenger space for kids. Deep snow isn't a problem, it plows through it with ease. Only issue was snow caked into the wheels and brakes, so you lose a lot of initial braking power as the calipers clear out the snow. Again, that's only driving through deep snow.
Definately the most fun winter car I've owned so far, as long as you leave PSM off.
http://www.beyond.ca/update-1-porsch...car/10890.html
I replaced it with a 2012 CLS 550 4Matic this year, not as much fun as the 996TT, but I needed the more passenger space for kids. Deep snow isn't a problem, it plows through it with ease. Only issue was snow caked into the wheels and brakes, so you lose a lot of initial braking power as the calipers clear out the snow. Again, that's only driving through deep snow.
Definately the most fun winter car I've owned so far, as long as you leave PSM off.
10-29-2012, 04:04 PM
#7
We get limited snow in the (south) UK, although a couple of years ago we did get a surprising amount. Even on summer tyres, my turbo did OK - although I'm not sure I would have wanted to drive in those conditions weeks on end.
But, height is a problem. As soon as you get a couple of inches, you're driving in people's tyre tracks - and the front of the car is acting as a snow plow - with the frozen centre strip scraping the bottom of your car. Not great.
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10-29-2012, 04:30 PM
#8
Hello from Calgary. My 996TT was my winter car last year, it's perfect for our winters. I wrote up a couple of articles on it:
http://www.beyond.ca/update-1-porsch...car/10890.html
I replaced it with a 2012 CLS 550 4Matic this year, not as much fun as the 996TT, but I needed the more passenger space for kids. Deep snow isn't a problem, it plows through it with ease. Only issue was snow caked into the wheels and brakes, so you lose a lot of initial braking power as the calipers clear out the snow. Again, that's only driving through deep snow.
Definately the most fun winter car I've owned so far, as long as you leave PSM off.
http://www.beyond.ca/update-1-porsch...car/10890.html
I replaced it with a 2012 CLS 550 4Matic this year, not as much fun as the 996TT, but I needed the more passenger space for kids. Deep snow isn't a problem, it plows through it with ease. Only issue was snow caked into the wheels and brakes, so you lose a lot of initial braking power as the calipers clear out the snow. Again, that's only driving through deep snow.
Definately the most fun winter car I've owned so far, as long as you leave PSM off.
10-29-2012, 04:31 PM
#9
Race Director
I made a similar thread in the "Canada" forum and got some good feedback there. Plus on Saturday night I was sort of forced to take my 993C2 complete with it's summer tires out on the road with snow on the ground due to problems with my Jeep and I was surprised (but shouldn't really have been surprised) at how well the rear engine 911 handled the white slippery stuff (meaning an all wheel drive Turbo or C4 would be even better). The consensus was, as long as you have winter tires on the 911 it will be fine. Clearance could be an issue on days where a lot of snow has fallen and deep ruts have developed. But one thing that could be a real deal breaker is I would be paranoid of being rear ended driving on the white slippery stuff. Being rear end is always a risk with winter driving, but most cars don't have the engine in the rear.
I had my brand new Boxster out in the snow -- very very late at night -- with no traffic the roads unplowed and a few inches of nice snow.
The car managed very well, surprisingly well, and I thought ah ha I have the best of both worlds and who needs winter tires?
The next time I had it out in the snow was when I got caught in a snow storm driving from Ft. Smith ARK to Joplin MO and oh the horrors... Then it got worse. On the jog east on I-40 over to 71 north (which is east of Joplin) I ran into snow on top of ice...
Funny but at 70mph during the summer those 71 highway turns do not look quite so banked but creeping along on summer tires at maybe 15mph in the snow on top of the ice the Boxster slid down the banking to the shoulder of the road.
While I managed to get the car moving again it was touch and go for longer than I care to remember.
About the worst 8 hours of my life ever spent in a car. I do not think I blinked one time that whole drive until I finally was able to pull off the road in Butler MO and at a DIY car wash rinse (defrost) about 1000lbs of snowy slush from the car's radiator ducts, at the base of the windshield, and in the wheel wells.
Never ever take one of these cars out in snow without the proper tires fitted.
Sincerely,
Macster.
10-30-2012, 11:36 AM
#10
I did it with snow tires....it was awesome. Mostly for the temperature safety issue.
But, you introduce the car to a lot of salt/sand and perhaps damage from other drivers sliding around. So I never drove it with snow, just had the tires out for the temperature rating. Summer tires get rock hard....rock hard.
And, on my turbo, it is low, so it becomes a snow plow over 3" or so of road snow. That is my main fear...driving along just find, and a subtle ice/snow ridge is in the road you cannot avoid. Bam....front bumper/air dam gets smashed....
Anyway, the Pirelli 240 snow sports were great. I had proper wheels and spacers at the time. No, it did not drive with nearly the precision of summer tires. The blocks of rubber on proper snow tires take a bit of the fun out in my opinion.
In the meantime, I bought a beater (suv) and love it.....so cheap that if it has an bumper here or there, no big deal. The freedom to not care is a very nice thing. Not going back. My 2c.
jeff
But, you introduce the car to a lot of salt/sand and perhaps damage from other drivers sliding around. So I never drove it with snow, just had the tires out for the temperature rating. Summer tires get rock hard....rock hard.
And, on my turbo, it is low, so it becomes a snow plow over 3" or so of road snow. That is my main fear...driving along just find, and a subtle ice/snow ridge is in the road you cannot avoid. Bam....front bumper/air dam gets smashed....
Anyway, the Pirelli 240 snow sports were great. I had proper wheels and spacers at the time. No, it did not drive with nearly the precision of summer tires. The blocks of rubber on proper snow tires take a bit of the fun out in my opinion.
In the meantime, I bought a beater (suv) and love it.....so cheap that if it has an bumper here or there, no big deal. The freedom to not care is a very nice thing. Not going back. My 2c.
jeff
Last edited by jcb-memphis; 11-04-2012 at 04:33 PM.
10-30-2012, 12:17 PM
#11
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No effect. Realistically, you're not going to get a premium unless you have under 10k miles and never drive the thing, but you would get no value out of the car. Most of the people shopping for 996TT's are guys that can't afford 997's and aren't really nitpicky Porschephiles.
If it wasn't for the fact that I have to deal with kids in the back and carrying kids gear everywhere, I would've moved to a 997TT PDK as my full time winter car instead of a Mercedes CLS 4Matic. The 996TT is by far the most fun winter car I've owned. My only gripe was with the tiptronic, it's kinda crappy.
If it wasn't for the fact that I have to deal with kids in the back and carrying kids gear everywhere, I would've moved to a 997TT PDK as my full time winter car instead of a Mercedes CLS 4Matic. The 996TT is by far the most fun winter car I've owned. My only gripe was with the tiptronic, it's kinda crappy.
10-30-2012, 10:33 PM
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Hello from Calgary. My 996TT was my winter car last year, it's perfect for our winters. I wrote up a couple of articles on it:
http://www.beyond.ca/update-1-porsch...car/10890.html
I replaced it with a 2012 CLS 550 4Matic this year, not as much fun as the 996TT, but I needed the more passenger space for kids. Deep snow isn't a problem, it plows through it with ease. Only issue was snow caked into the wheels and brakes, so you lose a lot of initial braking power as the calipers clear out the snow. Again, that's only driving through deep snow.
Definately the most fun winter car I've owned so far, as long as you leave PSM off.
http://www.beyond.ca/update-1-porsch...car/10890.html
I replaced it with a 2012 CLS 550 4Matic this year, not as much fun as the 996TT, but I needed the more passenger space for kids. Deep snow isn't a problem, it plows through it with ease. Only issue was snow caked into the wheels and brakes, so you lose a lot of initial braking power as the calipers clear out the snow. Again, that's only driving through deep snow.
Definately the most fun winter car I've owned so far, as long as you leave PSM off.
11-03-2012, 08:11 AM
#14
My993C2,
I have driven my Turbo in 9 winters now, it's a phenomenal car (on appropriate winter tires) in the snow - 14" of light fluffy snow has posed no issue, conversely 8-9" of wet snow has also been presented several times with no issues. It is some of the best / most fun driving you can do in this car - it truly is amazing in the snow. You will see a whole new side of the car that few explore.
With that said once the winter is over I always look forward to putting my summer back on in the spring.
Good luck!! Your results may vary and no one has disapproved this message.
T2
I have driven my Turbo in 9 winters now, it's a phenomenal car (on appropriate winter tires) in the snow - 14" of light fluffy snow has posed no issue, conversely 8-9" of wet snow has also been presented several times with no issues. It is some of the best / most fun driving you can do in this car - it truly is amazing in the snow. You will see a whole new side of the car that few explore.
With that said once the winter is over I always look forward to putting my summer back on in the spring.
Good luck!! Your results may vary and no one has disapproved this message.
T2
11-03-2012, 03:57 PM
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If you have long winter with a lot of snow I don't think a turbo is the best choice as daily car....Ground clearance is very small and with some 295 at the back.....I had many Audi S4 and RS4 in the past and the best I had was the RS4 B7 4.2 V8. For winter use on the wet and in the snow even deep it is truly brillant. Ad a set of winter tyres on it and just awesome. A porsche turbo is good on the wet but to a certain limit. In the snow I wouldn't dare to take mine out.