Potential 996 Turbo owner; looking for information
07-06-2011, 08:28 AM
#31
Nordschleife Master
Car dealers love buyers like you. Most of us here are giving you the advice we are since we have all been there and don't have the same mentality about buying that you do. Most of us spent a considerable amount of time waiting for the perfect one that met our standards to come along. We also went through very thorough PPI's at a neutral location before even negotiating price. We'd just hate for you to buy a car of this level and price on emotion making excuses about why there are so many red flags and then have them come back to bite you in the back side.
07-06-2011, 09:39 AM
#32
Rennlist Member
(
Google - Bernardsville vw 
)Its what all the dealers in NY/NJ use. I suspect its b/c you have to be a "dealer" (or subscriber) to obtain the info - therefore Galves is less transparent than KBB or NADA.
Also, try http://www.porsche.com/usa/pre-owned-vehicles/search/ . If you search under 911 Turbo Years 2001-2005 - 32 vehicles come up across the country. Most are in the $40s. If you add a CPO filter there will be less results, but I think a "factory" warranty on a used car is worth the extra coin.
How long have you been looking for a 911? If you search this site, you will learn that many people (including myself) spent months and months looking at different examples until we found "the one."
Finally, and FWIW, when I was searching for my 996 turbo (mid '09 to early '10), '01 Tips with Bumper warts were going for thousands < $40K.
07-06-2011, 11:34 AM
#33
Thanks guys.
I am not finding these "other cars" though. A cars.com and autotrader.com search only shows the same three, two are dealer one privately owned, all asking 45.9k, including this care. The other dealer one is 4kmiles and the other is a private sale so no thanks. I have not found any other similar turbos for under 50k, plus this one is only an hour away.
I am not finding these "other cars" though. A cars.com and autotrader.com search only shows the same three, two are dealer one privately owned, all asking 45.9k, including this care. The other dealer one is 4kmiles and the other is a private sale so no thanks. I have not found any other similar turbos for under 50k, plus this one is only an hour away.
Or... 2003 w/ 26.5k miles, asking $49k. Atlas Grey Metallic is a very beautiful and rare 996 color (looks like Seal Grey in the pics though -- maybe they got the color wrong). Offered by an authorized Porsche dealer in Mill Valley, CA, but not CPO.
Both of these cars are under the $50k asking price. And they are probably in MUCH better condition than the one you're looking at. They aren't local to you, but imagine the father/son bonding you'd get on the drive back!
Good luck.
Michael.
I would still perform a PPI on both of these cars, BTW.
07-06-2011, 12:26 PM
#35
Drifting
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Always buy the newest car you can afford. There were significant improvements made in the 2002 MY. Even if they have a few more miles, they may be better cars in the long run.
Also, some of your comments indicate significant UV damage indicating that the car has spent a lot of time sitting outdoors. While largely asthetic, no one wants their pride and joy to look like a beater. Sure that can all be fixed, but there is no sense in paying a premium and then having to dump a few thousand just to make it look good.
Seriously, keep looking or get a major concession on the price.
Just to give you an example. I bought mine 3 months ago from a P dealer (2004 cab, 48k miles, brand new PS2's, CPO, a little scuffing on the splitter but otherwise not a mark on it). They were asking $61K. I paid 53K. I had them at 52 withouth the CPO, but negotiated the CPO for a little more money.
I'll sell it to you for $65K. That's a better deal than what you are looking at.
Also, some of your comments indicate significant UV damage indicating that the car has spent a lot of time sitting outdoors. While largely asthetic, no one wants their pride and joy to look like a beater. Sure that can all be fixed, but there is no sense in paying a premium and then having to dump a few thousand just to make it look good.
Seriously, keep looking or get a major concession on the price.
Just to give you an example. I bought mine 3 months ago from a P dealer (2004 cab, 48k miles, brand new PS2's, CPO, a little scuffing on the splitter but otherwise not a mark on it). They were asking $61K. I paid 53K. I had them at 52 withouth the CPO, but negotiated the CPO for a little more money.
I'll sell it to you for $65K. That's a better deal than what you are looking at.
Good move.
07-06-2011, 03:13 PM
#37
Race Director
I actually brought that up with the salesman and he had no idea about the rubber bumper addons indicating an early 2001 model. He also thought the carbon was aftermarket but running the vin showed it was factory.....in his defense they had the car for 2 weeks and 1.5 of those it was being driven by the owner's father, a porsche enthusiast So im sure thye didnt have all the time in the world to inspect it thoroughly besides for pictures.
Wholesale on that is about $38k, so $35k is a bit too low. Auction price is around $28k according to the information I have from a dealer friend.
here is that said information:
---Based on 7/1/2011 Galves books
Base Price: $34,000 Adds/Deducts: $0 Subtotal: $34,000 Odometer Adj: $3,825 Override: Wholesale: $37,825
Base Price: $35,650 Adds/Deducts: $0 Subtotal: $35,650 Odometer Adj: $3,825 Override: MarketReady: $39,475
---Based on most recent auction 6/20/2011
national: # vehicles: 7
Average Odometer: 36,000
Average Auction Price: $32,684
Regional: # vehicles: 1
Average odometer: 29,578
Average Auction Price: $27,300
Galves Wholesale Price: $37,825
rbook Price: $49,541
Auction Price: 27,300
MMR: $42,000
With the price I am offering them, if they paid around that wholesale price for the car, they are still within a 10% profit margin of $38k + $3800 = $41800 rounded to $42k.
If you follow the MMR (Manheim Market Report ) wholesale price of $42k, which I doubt they paid, then maybe his "we paid that" story is true. But then why would you price it with only a $3k profit?
I doubt they grabbed it at around that auction price; since they go to auction in PA, they probably paid closer to wholesale. Overall, they will still be making a few bucks if we pay $42k.
Wholesale on that is about $38k, so $35k is a bit too low. Auction price is around $28k according to the information I have from a dealer friend.
here is that said information:
---Based on 7/1/2011 Galves books
Base Price: $34,000 Adds/Deducts: $0 Subtotal: $34,000 Odometer Adj: $3,825 Override: Wholesale: $37,825
Base Price: $35,650 Adds/Deducts: $0 Subtotal: $35,650 Odometer Adj: $3,825 Override: MarketReady: $39,475
---Based on most recent auction 6/20/2011
national: # vehicles: 7
Average Odometer: 36,000
Average Auction Price: $32,684
Regional: # vehicles: 1
Average odometer: 29,578
Average Auction Price: $27,300
Galves Wholesale Price: $37,825
rbook Price: $49,541
Auction Price: 27,300
MMR: $42,000
With the price I am offering them, if they paid around that wholesale price for the car, they are still within a 10% profit margin of $38k + $3800 = $41800 rounded to $42k.
If you follow the MMR (Manheim Market Report ) wholesale price of $42k, which I doubt they paid, then maybe his "we paid that" story is true. But then why would you price it with only a $3k profit?
I doubt they grabbed it at around that auction price; since they go to auction in PA, they probably paid closer to wholesale. Overall, they will still be making a few bucks if we pay $42k.
Sincerely,
Macster.
07-06-2011, 03:38 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
Try again. Operator error.
As shown on the attached .pdf, a pre-owned inventory search on http://www.porsche.com/usa/pre-owned-vehicles/search/ under the parameters: 911 turbo years 2001-2005 yields 32 results. The first 8 cars listed are under $50K. 1 at $47, 3 at $48, 4 at $49K.
That's all the searching i'm doing for today.
As shown on the attached .pdf, a pre-owned inventory search on http://www.porsche.com/usa/pre-owned-vehicles/search/ under the parameters: 911 turbo years 2001-2005 yields 32 results. The first 8 cars listed are under $50K. 1 at $47, 3 at $48, 4 at $49K.
That's all the searching i'm doing for today.
Last edited by JG 996T; 10-21-2013 at 12:05 PM.
07-06-2011, 03:47 PM
#39
Race Director
Here's what I've found within the price range and year.
Some have a little too many miles but make up for it in other places.
What do you guys think? Now we are willing to travel around if its really worth it
shooting dealers emails Good thing my boss isn't here today 
edit: The guy from the dealer caleld me twice (I let him leave a message) and sent me an email, pleading his case against the MMR price of $42k and he could do $43k and make "a couple hundred bucks" and that's the lowest he'll go.
I haven't responded.
I'm still looking around.
Some have a little too many miles but make up for it in other places.
What do you guys think? Now we are willing to travel around if its really worth it
shooting dealers emails
Good thing my boss isn't here today edit: The guy from the dealer caleld me twice (I let him leave a message) and sent me an email, pleading his case against the MMR price of $42k and he could do $43k and make "a couple hundred bucks" and that's the lowest he'll go.
I haven't responded.
I'm still looking around.
Not sure how you figure this. Porsche assumes these cars cover between 6K to 9K miles per year and a 2001 being 10 years old could have between 60K to 90K miles. A 2004 and at 7 years old could have 42K to 63K miles.
None of the cars listed above has scary high miles.
I like to say a good car is where you find it and if you find one next door or halfway across the country and for a suitable price what difference does it make?
OTOH, one can spend quite a bit of time and money traveling long distances to view/visit cars and end up giving them a pass.
But you are the car shopper/buyer. Whatever you are comfortable is all that matters.
Sincerely,
Macster.
07-06-2011, 04:58 PM
#40
Drifting
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You have several 996.2 cars under 50k miles with asking prices in the mid to upper 40's. There is a good deal for the low 40's in there somewhere. You just need to find it.
07-06-2011, 08:23 PM
#41
Race Director
We just stopped by Porsche in Greenwich to look at their 03 Turbo 6speed......
boy am I happy we didnt buy the car the other day. This car was much much much cleaner, the interior was immaculate in comparison.
I would gladly pay the extra few bucks for a few years newer, with more packages, and from an actual Porsche dealer.
Plus this guy at KAm will not leave me alone, he keeps emailing me; its actually pretty funny. He's like a little kid. He's mad because I turned him down then "insulted his intelligence"
boy am I happy we didnt buy the car the other day. This car was much much much cleaner, the interior was immaculate in comparison.
I would gladly pay the extra few bucks for a few years newer, with more packages, and from an actual Porsche dealer.
Plus this guy at KAm will not leave me alone, he keeps emailing me; its actually pretty funny. He's like a little kid. He's mad because I turned him down then "insulted his intelligence"
Not all salesman pick the right approach, the right words for everyone, so in this case he's turned you off of buying the car from him, which is probably a good thing. I've never seen a salesman yet pressure me to buy a car he's not making any money on in fact the more pressure the more money I suspect he's making on the car.
If you want to play his game a bit and of course if you really like the car and know it to be a sound car make him an offer your market research indicates is market price for this car and when he balks and he will point out that you made a very fair offer, how can he turn down such a fair offer?
He won't bother you again.
Sincerely,
Macster.
07-06-2011, 10:24 PM
#43
Race Director
Price is not a fact only an opinion. The dealer/salesman is entitled to his opinion but so are you entitled to your's.
One of many rules I have when buying a car is the process should be fun. Sure it can also be intense at times, but in a good way.
If your encounter with a dealership or a car salesman is not a pleasureable encounter, turns unpleasant, makes you feel uncomfortable, then move on.
Another rule is there is always another car.
Sincerely,
Macster.
One of many rules I have when buying a car is the process should be fun. Sure it can also be intense at times, but in a good way.
If your encounter with a dealership or a car salesman is not a pleasureable encounter, turns unpleasant, makes you feel uncomfortable, then move on.
Another rule is there is always another car.
Sincerely,
Macster.
07-08-2011, 07:08 PM
#44
Race Director
Thanks for your wise words, as usual.
This last guy and car has taught me to really watch out for the typical "used car salesman" and even though I am already pretty picky, that I will have to express it before the pricing as opposed to during?
iI need to sift through the spreadsheet cars and I guess I will check on fleabay--but only if its at a legit dealer, no more of these warehouse-with-a-storefront-and-three-employees places.
Thanks for the help guys, I should have agreed with you all 2 pages ago; I am happy we did not purchase this car.
searched fleabay, and have not found any like you mentioned; can you post a link to the ones you've found? I found only 1 turbo for sale by a dealer for under $55k in tiptronic
This last guy and car has taught me to really watch out for the typical "used car salesman" and even though I am already pretty picky, that I will have to express it before the pricing as opposed to during?
iI need to sift through the spreadsheet cars and I guess I will check on fleabay--but only if its at a legit dealer, no more of these warehouse-with-a-storefront-and-three-employees places.
Thanks for the help guys, I should have agreed with you all 2 pages ago; I am happy we did not purchase this car.
searched fleabay, and have not found any like you mentioned; can you post a link to the ones you've found? I found only 1 turbo for sale by a dealer for under $55k in tiptronic
My belief is it is better to be a bit tight lipped when looking at a car. This results in silence, hopefully uncomfortable silence from the salesman's point of view and the salesman is compelled to fill the silence with talk and what he has to say unprompted and without a cue from you may prove to be useful to you.
Sincerely,
Macster.
07-15-2011, 12:10 AM
#45
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sorry, I have been busy at my internship and havent really had time to search.
We found a nice one in CT, silver 03 with 26k miles loaded with 997 wheels, nav, cd, options, tiptronic, etc asking $54k
Its still more than we would like ot spend but its worth taking a look at.
A lot of cars we've found are a flight away and my father is reluctant to fly to see a car..... the search continues. Thanks for the help.
The problem on the last test drive was we seemed too excited with the car, then when it came time ot pricing we mentioned all of the problems. This time orund I will not hold back until the end but will say what I see right away so it is not a surprise....
We found a nice one in CT, silver 03 with 26k miles loaded with 997 wheels, nav, cd, options, tiptronic, etc asking $54k
Its still more than we would like ot spend but its worth taking a look at.
A lot of cars we've found are a flight away and my father is reluctant to fly to see a car..... the search continues. Thanks for the help.
The problem on the last test drive was we seemed too excited with the car, then when it came time ot pricing we mentioned all of the problems. This time orund I will not hold back until the end but will say what I see right away so it is not a surprise....