Experiences with Clutch Fluid Bleeding
01-13-2011, 06:03 PM
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Experiences with Clutch Fluid Bleeding
My clutch pedal did not feel well after a gearbox rebuild so I figured I'd bleed the clutch fluid and while at it (the car has 80'000 miles) just replace the whole fluid.
Based on POSES instructions and the DIY tutorial I figured it's an easy job to do before dinner on an evening. As it wasn't and quite painful...I think its good to share my experiences including pictures.
Basic conditions: I did this alone in my garage with two car jacks, it was my first clutch bleeding.
What you need:
- There is about 0.7l (7 quarts) of fluid in the system, I bought 1 Liter (10 quarts) of Pentosin CHF 11 S: http://www.pentosin....c=&pid=668&vid=
- My Porsche 996 TT needed a 11mm wrench for the bleeder valve
- a good light source, I had an LED light
- a catch can/bottle with a hose that fits on the valve, I bought a special brake/clutch catch bottle with a fitting end
- a pice of wood or similar to push back the clutch pedal
- a feed hopper to not spill any Pentosin while filling up
1) Use the car jacks to bring the car up as hight as possible. Search for the the bleeder valve. It is well hidden: Follow the driver side rear wheel to the gear box and look high up. You see two hoses, above one is the valve.
2) Now comes the difficult part if you have large arms and hands: Reach to the valve and take off the valve cap. Attach the wrench with the closed round side to the valve so that the other end of the wrench touches the underside of the car. This makes it easy to open (pull down) and close it (push up) again.
3) Attach the hose of the catch tank to the bleeder valve
4) Open the cap of the green compensation reservoir under the black plastic cover right next to the battery in the trunk, make sure it is filled, it may not at any point drain in air instead of fluid, to not spill any Pentosin cover the area with paper and attach a feed hopper, I taped it to the strut brace so it doesn't move
5) Push the clutch pedal far down, secure it with the piece of wood against the driver seat with enough soft cushion to avoid scratches
6) Open the bleeder valve (a few cm are enough) you'll see the green fluid coming out
7) slowly pull and push the clutch pedal 5 iterations
8) fill up the compensation reservoir with Pentosin
My mechanic support told me to change the whole fluid as he said you cannot be sure where the air is kept so I repeated steps 7 and 8 till I got 0.8l (8 quarts) of Pentosin in the catch can.
9) Leave the clutch pedal in regular position
10) close the valve by pushing the wrench up, make sure it is closed tight but do not add pressure
11) Remove the bleeding hose and wipe off any remaining Pentosin, put back the valce cap
12) fill up the Pentosin into the compensation reservoir so it is between min and max levels
13) after Pumping 4 times the pedal feel came back, if it does not return slowly pump forth and back
My clutch feel is now back to normal, I hope this helps someone to speed up the process
.
Cheers
Ronny
Based on POSES instructions and the DIY tutorial I figured it's an easy job to do before dinner on an evening. As it wasn't and quite painful...I think its good to share my experiences including pictures.
Basic conditions: I did this alone in my garage with two car jacks, it was my first clutch bleeding.
What you need:
- There is about 0.7l (7 quarts) of fluid in the system, I bought 1 Liter (10 quarts) of Pentosin CHF 11 S: http://www.pentosin....c=&pid=668&vid=
- My Porsche 996 TT needed a 11mm wrench for the bleeder valve
- a good light source, I had an LED light
- a catch can/bottle with a hose that fits on the valve, I bought a special brake/clutch catch bottle with a fitting end
- a pice of wood or similar to push back the clutch pedal
- a feed hopper to not spill any Pentosin while filling up
1) Use the car jacks to bring the car up as hight as possible. Search for the the bleeder valve. It is well hidden: Follow the driver side rear wheel to the gear box and look high up. You see two hoses, above one is the valve.
2) Now comes the difficult part if you have large arms and hands: Reach to the valve and take off the valve cap. Attach the wrench with the closed round side to the valve so that the other end of the wrench touches the underside of the car. This makes it easy to open (pull down) and close it (push up) again.
3) Attach the hose of the catch tank to the bleeder valve
4) Open the cap of the green compensation reservoir under the black plastic cover right next to the battery in the trunk, make sure it is filled, it may not at any point drain in air instead of fluid, to not spill any Pentosin cover the area with paper and attach a feed hopper, I taped it to the strut brace so it doesn't move
5) Push the clutch pedal far down, secure it with the piece of wood against the driver seat with enough soft cushion to avoid scratches
6) Open the bleeder valve (a few cm are enough) you'll see the green fluid coming out
7) slowly pull and push the clutch pedal 5 iterations
8) fill up the compensation reservoir with Pentosin
My mechanic support told me to change the whole fluid as he said you cannot be sure where the air is kept so I repeated steps 7 and 8 till I got 0.8l (8 quarts) of Pentosin in the catch can.
9) Leave the clutch pedal in regular position
10) close the valve by pushing the wrench up, make sure it is closed tight but do not add pressure
11) Remove the bleeding hose and wipe off any remaining Pentosin, put back the valce cap
12) fill up the Pentosin into the compensation reservoir so it is between min and max levels
13) after Pumping 4 times the pedal feel came back, if it does not return slowly pump forth and back
My clutch feel is now back to normal, I hope this helps someone to speed up the process
.Cheers
Ronny
01-13-2011, 08:20 PM
#2
I don't know who advised you to do it this way, but you really made a lot of work for yourself, and I'd bet you'll have problems with this again in the not so distant future. You also might want to download the factory service manuals before continueing to work on your 996TT...
I have a more detailed write-up over on renntrack.com in the DIY section... http://www.renntrack.com/forums/show...ccumilator-DIY
Word of advice... Use a LARGE freezer bag over the slave/accumilator so you don't spew pentosin all over those water lines. Pentosin is not friendly to rubber hoses and will eat any rubberit comes in contact with for much more than 5 minuntes...
Mike
I have a more detailed write-up over on renntrack.com in the DIY section... http://www.renntrack.com/forums/show...ccumilator-DIY
Word of advice... Use a LARGE freezer bag over the slave/accumilator so you don't spew pentosin all over those water lines. Pentosin is not friendly to rubber hoses and will eat any rubberit comes in contact with for much more than 5 minuntes...
Mike
01-14-2011, 08:43 AM
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I had severe issues with the clutch feel (even had problem to put in reverse two times). A mechanic I'm friends with maintains 996 for many years and advised me to change the whole clutch fluid what makes sense in a way.
Regarding factory manual I have POSES which does contain the factory manuals and much more information. The procedure I did is not in conflict with the information in POSES.
Regarding Pentosin: the catch can I have has a good nipple on it so only a few drops got on the rubber hose below the valve which is a hose that does run Pentosin. Pentosin is not nearly as agressive as brake fluid so the guidance is to just wipe it off however the Safety Manual of Pentosin CHF 11S does not advise that it contains any substance that endangers rubber hoses (Hazardous Polymerization: will not occur) and it says skin contact may cause irritation so no biggie. I picked up a few parts at Porsche this morning and asked the Porsche mechanic about the procedure and also the Pentosin and he said there is nothing to worry about.
Ronny
Regarding factory manual I have POSES which does contain the factory manuals and much more information. The procedure I did is not in conflict with the information in POSES.
Regarding Pentosin: the catch can I have has a good nipple on it so only a few drops got on the rubber hose below the valve which is a hose that does run Pentosin. Pentosin is not nearly as agressive as brake fluid so the guidance is to just wipe it off however the Safety Manual of Pentosin CHF 11S does not advise that it contains any substance that endangers rubber hoses (Hazardous Polymerization: will not occur) and it says skin contact may cause irritation so no biggie
. I picked up a few parts at Porsche this morning and asked the Porsche mechanic about the procedure and also the Pentosin and he said there is nothing to worry about.Ronny
01-14-2011, 08:48 AM
#4
Sorry, Wasn't even aware of POSES... I've always had a copy of the FSMs...
Just be aware that the accumilator membrain is known to fail with regular frequency and more often than not (and this is a big issue with "porsche techs" too) people forget to maintain the level check at the rear of the car in the power steering reservoir. Also, You might invest in a cheap motiv bleeder and extra gasket to use when bleeding the clutch. I've found in using that, it takes far less time and you can then clean up the cap, swap the rubber gasket (rinse it off before storage) and use the system for brake bleeds as well.
If you go to replace the accumilator, that tip above about the freezer baggie will come in handy... Pentosin is so bad on rubber, it devoured my watch band with just a single drop of it.
Mike
Just be aware that the accumilator membrain is known to fail with regular frequency and more often than not (and this is a big issue with "porsche techs" too) people forget to maintain the level check at the rear of the car in the power steering reservoir. Also, You might invest in a cheap motiv bleeder and extra gasket to use when bleeding the clutch. I've found in using that, it takes far less time and you can then clean up the cap, swap the rubber gasket (rinse it off before storage) and use the system for brake bleeds as well.
If you go to replace the accumilator, that tip above about the freezer baggie will come in handy... Pentosin is so bad on rubber, it devoured my watch band with just a single drop of it.
Mike
01-14-2011, 09:33 AM
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I'll invest into one of these bleeders but need to find one here in Switzerland. The regular workshop supplier here (which usually has everything) does not carry one with pressure measuring.
Are you sure it was Pentosin rather than brake fluid? I did have it on my hands and also used a rubber hose to fill in which it did not attack at all. Pentosin does recommend Latex or rubber gloves for protection so this really seems strange to me.
Ronny
Are you sure it was Pentosin rather than brake fluid? I did have it on my hands and also used a rubber hose to fill in which it did not attack at all. Pentosin does recommend Latex or rubber gloves for protection so this really seems strange to me.
Ronny
01-14-2011, 11:08 AM
#6
My 2c...just do the gt2 mod if you can afford it....I did..after 2nd slave died in a short interval years ago. Been stable with the evoms kit since....NOT cheap... There are other kits now too....guy on renntrack has one for a little less, but you need to do some drilling and tapping.
Search on here, renntrack, and 6so...
Jeff
Search on here, renntrack, and 6so...
Jeff
01-14-2011, 03:45 PM
#7
I'm 110% positive... maybe Kevin or one of the other indy techs can chime in, but pentosin has two bad traits... The first is it eats rubber, and the second is it has a VERY high flash point and has been known to cause fires... When I mentioned it eating my watch band, it was during a "clutch bleed" job... The stuff will eat those waterlines that run up the side of the case and it won't be in minutes, it'll take days... the key is to flush the contaminated area with water and lots of it immediately upon contact...
Mike
Mike
I'll invest into one of these bleeders but need to find one here in Switzerland. The regular workshop supplier here (which usually has everything) does not carry one with pressure measuring.
Are you sure it was Pentosin rather than brake fluid? I did have it on my hands and also used a rubber hose to fill in which it did not attack at all. Pentosin does recommend Latex or rubber gloves for protection so this really seems strange to me.
Ronny
Are you sure it was Pentosin rather than brake fluid? I did have it on my hands and also used a rubber hose to fill in which it did not attack at all. Pentosin does recommend Latex or rubber gloves for protection so this really seems strange to me.
Ronny
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01-14-2011, 04:07 PM
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Ok thanks for clarifying, then in case anything even a drop spilled it was good that I took the car through the car wash including underside wash
Ronny
Ronny
01-16-2011, 07:35 AM
#9
Ronny, check with the folks at PelicanParts. They might ship a MOTIV to you for cheap...They're really good folks...
Mike
Mike
01-16-2011, 08:34 AM
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Will do thanks Mike.
An add to Pentosin:
The repair manual clearly states that water hoses that get in contact need to be washed off immediately.
Different plastics seem to react differently as I can see now: I put the Pentosin into a PET plastic bottle to dispose . Also the filler cone and the box I kept it in still had pentosin on it. I disposed it yesterday (specially of course) and saw the following 4 days after the bleeding: The plastic bottle clearly had a chemical reaction, the air got used up and the bottle had a vacuum. The hose and plastic box showed no change. So as said by Mike...be careful when handling Pentosin.
An add to Pentosin:
The repair manual clearly states that water hoses that get in contact need to be washed off immediately.
Different plastics seem to react differently as I can see now: I put the Pentosin into a PET plastic bottle to dispose . Also the filler cone and the box I kept it in still had pentosin on it. I disposed it yesterday (specially of course) and saw the following 4 days after the bleeding: The plastic bottle clearly had a chemical reaction, the air got used up and the bottle had a vacuum. The hose and plastic box showed no change. So as said by Mike...be careful when handling Pentosin.
