Truble10

I recently picked up a 2005 E55. I have been trolling the forums at mbworld.org. I found this tread the other day and could not resist.

http://www.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=116974

There is a video of a pretty good driver in a E55 passing a 996 tt. Looks like just a case of a better driver in the E55 to me but I'm being blasted up one side and down the other for saying it. The guys on the forum now think the E55 is the worlds greatest track car. I'm not sure why they feel this way. The car is nice - lots of HP, in a straight line but it's a very heavy vehicle
4243 lb - E55 vs
3659 lb - 996 TT
In no way compare to my 02 996 tt as a track car. My 996tt is lowered and has a few performance mods but nothing serious.

What do you guys think? Any E55 owners here? Again not knocking the E55 but it is no Porsche and certainly no serious track car.

Sanjeevan

I have passed 996TT's, 996 gt3's and C5 ZO6's on the track......no way in hell will I call my car a better track car than any of these. Anyone who is tracked more than a few times with any sense left in them will know that there are different levels of skills in lower groups, that the car's are totally irrelevent. Once I advance to higher groups and the talent levels palateau, there is no way i'll be able to pass any of the mentioned cars. So, the only thing that I learn from this thread is that the AMG driver has better driving skills but is a novice to tracking as he thinks it was a great deal passing the tt. Given equal drivers there is no way in hell the E55 will keep up with any 996, let alone a turbo, unless the track has no turns, even then I wonder whether it can pass a TT.

BobbyC

As someone wisely said, "It's the car and the driver"...I've never run with an E55 on the track but doubt if it can outrun or outhandle a TT. I would say this though, that I once had a little encounter with an SL55 AMG on a highway and he didn't have a prayer!

TestnDoc

Hey BobbyC,

How things going? I still haven't done any mods yet. Too busy with work and golf, but I have some time off soon, and might road trip to Atlanta to see Neil at Orton Performance. Still enjoying your turboS??

BobbyC

Hi Doc, good to hear from you. Yup, still get a hard on every time I get behind the wheel...she's got 11,500 miles and keeps getting better and better. If there's just 1 mod you do...lower the car. If its 2 mods, then first lower the car and get a Europipe. Really don't need anything else...cheers!

saveur2

I have an MY06 E55 coming in about 2 months, to add to the 996T. I need the 4 doors now that I'm starting a family.

That said, I've driven the E55 at a track event before, and although it's a very powerful car (dare I say, too powerful for a sedan!), it's not a track car, unless it's stripped. Obviously, it's no slouch when it comes to acceleration, but once the twisties are thrown in, the car is out of its element. Clearly it's total speculation, even with the "video". You should ask him if he was running in the novice group, or if they were just taking a tour of the circuit! And when I look at the movements of the E55 driver, it's pretty clear that he's been at this particular circuit/track more than several times. His lines are very clean, and never did he have to correct. Also, he mentioned something about being on better tires too.

And another thing, mbworld forums are full of knucklehead kids who just argue numbers all day long. It's really not worth my time even posting on their forums.

KJM3SMG

I'm assuming you mean some Benz forum?

Let the Benzo bozos have their fun.. when they get on the track they'll feel like a pig on rollerskates.

I'd like to add what I said in another forum.. that 4,237 lbs. curb weight, intrusive traction control, automatic transmission, is murder on the track in that E55.

Did you know the E39 M5 can beat it on a track course due to better suspension, manual transmission and lighter weight?

zed996tt

This could be a Mercdes Benz marketing tool for all we know. Based on his composure in the overweight E55 I'd say the driver is a pro and I can tell that the TT driver is either not a pro or was instructed to throttle back to make the E more competitive. Bottom line is that we don't know who was driving or who arranged this event under what conditions. I would have to know more details before accepting the notion of (automatic!!) E55's beating up on TT's at any track.

Zed996tt

1AS

I wasn't able to view the video, for some reason. Still don't think you can draw any conclusions about better track car. The driver who knows the track, has more track experience, or knows the limits of his car will always be faster.
I would postulate that on a track one knows well, an expert compared to a novice driver in an identical car could shift 3000rpm short of the redline and still be much faster. That would give up roughly half the power of the car.
Optimal tire pressures, stickier rubber, and experience with the limits of the car are major variables which preclude deductions from any single observation. You also never know how hard the slower guy was trying.
At Road Atlanta in 1990, during practice for a Vintage event, I was passed by a Triumph Spitfire while I was driving a CanAm Lola. I'm sure that guy told the story more than once.The Triumph was not a better track car. I just didn't know which way the road was going, since so many of the corners are blind. Three laps later, that would not have happened.
Nonetheless, I would not want to bet on the tt for a single drag race or a particular track segment. The E55 is a very good-handling sedan. I have an earlier (non-supercharged) model. It is extraordinarily easy to bring to the limits (much easier than a tt) I would fully expect a novice driver in an E55 to beat a novice in a tt. With all the drawbacks of the automatic, it does allow the driver to focus on braking and line. It is easy to slose a second per corner if you struggle with rev-matching and downshifting. AS

KJM3SMG

I humbly disagree.

When I was with the beginners group in my first time on a track with not a lot of long straight aways, mostly turns (Jefferson Circuit in Summit Point), I was in an E46 M3 and the other newbs where in a 540. Granted I have a .4 0-60 acceleration avg (matters not much on lots of twists). But the 540s were nowhere near any of our E46 M3s. As we got better from total beginners to novice with several lap experience, it got a lot worse for the heavy sedans.

There is just no way that heavy, brake deficient, luxury sport suspension E55 can beat a 996TT on a track unless you skew the biggest factor of them all: Drivers. The E55's electroni
cs takes over when you hit limits on traction, and the steering is horrible compared to just a regular E39 M5. Now the M5 vs 996TT on a track would be much much closer.

The only thing it really has going for it is the monster of a motor it has for straightline acceleration.

1AS

KJM,
I'm not sure we are disgareeing. My first point was that you can't tell which was a better track car from the video. A difference in driver skill could easily account for either car being "faster".
My second point had to do with ease of approaching the limits of the car. I postulated that a novice would have an easier time doing that in the E55. One could presume that novice would leave the ASC on in either car. Comparing BMW sedan to BMW sedan is a little different. To get the most out of a tt on the track, you need enough skill to use it's corner exit acceleration. Turn-in with the tt is never good in the stock vehicle, so you need to be aggressive with the brakes pre-entry. With an E55, the novice needs only to steer and nail the throttle. My E55 easily enters a trail throttle drift which is harder to do in the tt. Are we still disagreeing? AS

KJM3SMG

The car you drove, E55 pre 2003 (346hp?) is a totally different animal from the new one (469hp, 560lb./fts trq?). Where you steer and nail the throttle easily in your model.. the new one could very well bite you with that gigantic increase in HP and torque, or the usual Benz electronics takes over and nullifies your intentions.

I can't disagree with your assessment of the approach to a turn of a 996TT vs pre-2003 E55 for novice drivers. I do know that the weight penalty of a "sporty" sedan does not compare practically speaking vs. a lighter, Porsche 996 Turbo with better brakes, better suspension (yes stock sucks you say but still better than the E55), etc.

And the experience I brought out was a GT (E46 M3) vs a sedan with lotsa power (V8 540) with similar acceleration... just to compare a sports GT 996TT vs a sporty sedan E55... with novice drivers.

Anyway, I guess I am not disagreeing on the exact points.

Truble10

Thanks for all the replys. They just really missed my point on the MB boards. They still think the E55 is a comparable track car to the 996tt. Just wishful thinking. I was just trying to tell the guys on the MB forums that even though the E55 has 470hp it is a really heavy sedan. A really great sedan but no sports car.

vyper340

Look to me like the TT driver ws not very experienced (missed brake points, over shot turns, etc.). The MB seemed to catch up because the TT driver would brake too early or wasn't sure of himself. IMHO

BoneDaddy

In reality, who cares? In my first DE a few years ago, there was an instructor driving a Sentra (yes, the Nissan) who was passing everyone except for Roland Linder in his F40LM. At Gateway near St. Louis, the top drivers are getting around the circuit in 1:20. Formula Fords can do it in 1:05. Which is a better car? My tt can kill them on any stretch, but in the turns it's different. MB makes a nice car for the Autobahn (had 2). Not my cup for the track though. Pick a vehicle you like, enjoy it and realize there is always going to be someone better or faster than you. Learn why and make yourself better too.