Advice on learning to drive my GT3
01-23-2017, 05:16 PM
#16
Race Car
Well, here's my advice on driving a GT3. A little different than sithot, but take whatever works for you and adopt that. 
1) Braking in a GT3 is not done in a straight line. It requires deep trail braking to rotate the car properly. If you brake in a straight line, you will have to steer the car into a turn, and you'll be slow (for a host of reasons - including because your min speed will be at turn in instead of apex. There is free time under the curve when trail braking)
2) Accelearation is more binary than progressive. The car doesn't need to be babied on corner exit. The GT3 is an odd platform. In a BMW (for example) you can sneak up on fast. 6 tenths. A little faster to 7 tenths. Then a litter faster to 8 tenths. Etc. Not the GT3. To be fast, you really have to take a leap of faith and trust the car. Corner exit - push the throttle to around 50% and if it sticks, push it all the way down. There's no smooth egg-preserving about it. It analog and requires brute force (and internal fortitude!)
3) I'm generally on board with late braking and early acceleration. But in the GT3, late braking can cause issues. For example, if you are not proficient at trail braking, heel-toe, and/or your braking cadence is off, you'll hit ABS when your aero downforce gives up and weight transfers to the front. You have to get your brake foot timing right to keep the front loaded, but not overloaded. It's more important to set the chassis than brake late.
IMO, in a 996 GT3, THE key is to get the car rotated early with trail braking. Then you can get on the throttle to set the rear. Many (probably most) experienced drivers hold the trail to long and create a false limit. You have to constantly tell yourself that you can release the brakes. That is, when you're trailing, the front is loaded and the rear will feel like it's slipping / out of grip. BUT - if you release the brakes - weight transfers to the rear and it grips. Transfer to gas and it sticks more. There's a brief moment pucker in there - but it'll stick.
Lastly, there are two places to interpret "smooth." In the car and outside the car. The two might overlap, but they don't have to. Specifically, IN the car, the driver might appear to be man-handling the car, searching for grip with the steering wheel, catching it on occasion (countersteer) - but the physical aspects of the car (i.e., balance at the contact patches) are smooth. FAST smooth really should be interpreted from the exterior and not the interior. Lots of drivers look smooth in the seat because the car is on rails (driving on grip) and not actually going fast (driving on slip).
Edit: here is an example of the two "smooth" perspectives. Be like this. https://youtu.be/iWEvDg2e7Bg
My $0.02. YMMV.
-td
1) Braking in a GT3 is not done in a straight line. It requires deep trail braking to rotate the car properly. If you brake in a straight line, you will have to steer the car into a turn, and you'll be slow (for a host of reasons - including because your min speed will be at turn in instead of apex. There is free time under the curve when trail braking)
2) Accelearation is more binary than progressive. The car doesn't need to be babied on corner exit. The GT3 is an odd platform. In a BMW (for example) you can sneak up on fast. 6 tenths. A little faster to 7 tenths. Then a litter faster to 8 tenths. Etc. Not the GT3. To be fast, you really have to take a leap of faith and trust the car. Corner exit - push the throttle to around 50% and if it sticks, push it all the way down. There's no smooth egg-preserving about it. It analog and requires brute force (and internal fortitude!)
3) I'm generally on board with late braking and early acceleration. But in the GT3, late braking can cause issues. For example, if you are not proficient at trail braking, heel-toe, and/or your braking cadence is off, you'll hit ABS when your aero downforce gives up and weight transfers to the front. You have to get your brake foot timing right to keep the front loaded, but not overloaded. It's more important to set the chassis than brake late.
IMO, in a 996 GT3, THE key is to get the car rotated early with trail braking. Then you can get on the throttle to set the rear. Many (probably most) experienced drivers hold the trail to long and create a false limit. You have to constantly tell yourself that you can release the brakes. That is, when you're trailing, the front is loaded and the rear will feel like it's slipping / out of grip. BUT - if you release the brakes - weight transfers to the rear and it grips. Transfer to gas and it sticks more. There's a brief moment pucker in there - but it'll stick.
Lastly, there are two places to interpret "smooth." In the car and outside the car. The two might overlap, but they don't have to. Specifically, IN the car, the driver might appear to be man-handling the car, searching for grip with the steering wheel, catching it on occasion (countersteer) - but the physical aspects of the car (i.e., balance at the contact patches) are smooth. FAST smooth really should be interpreted from the exterior and not the interior. Lots of drivers look smooth in the seat because the car is on rails (driving on grip) and not actually going fast (driving on slip).
Edit: here is an example of the two "smooth" perspectives. Be like this. https://youtu.be/iWEvDg2e7Bg
My $0.02. YMMV.
-td
This is all very good info... pretty sure that first link is Pat Long based on the helmet right? I also agree when you get to the limit of any tire you're driving what slip angle it allows and if you're not doing that you're not pushing hard enough. Basically quiet hands means you are nowhere near the limit.
HOWEVER...I will tame this message a little. For a first time guy in a 911 you can't hop into a car at your first DE and try to execute on what was discussed here. Get the basics down first and then come back to this advice posted here and start working on each of these factors as ultimately they will make you fast in the car. Unless you are the most natural talent around, it'll take you a few years to really get comfortable pushing this car.
Finally, have fun!!!
01-23-2017, 08:01 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
I would set up car initially with understeer ie much safer then oversteer set up. I probably set up with max understeer if you just starting ie you really have to trail brake to rotate the car on turn in. Do some autocrossing- it's fairly safe and you'll get a feel for the weight shift. Mike
01-24-2017, 12:09 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
Well, here's my advice on driving a GT3. A little different than sithot, but take whatever works for you and adopt that.
1) Braking in a GT3 is not done in a straight line.
2) Accelearation is more binary than progressive. To be fast, you really have to take a leap of faith and trust the car. Corner exit - push the throttle to around 50% and if it sticks, push it all the way down. There's no smooth egg-preserving about it. It analog and requires brute force (and internal fortitude!)
3) I'm generally on board with late braking and early acceleration. But in the GT3, late braking can cause issues.
IMO, in a 996 GT3, THE key is to get the car rotated early with trail braking. Then you can get on the throttle to set the rear. Many (probably most) experienced drivers hold the trail to long and create a false limit.
-td
1) Braking in a GT3 is not done in a straight line.
2) Accelearation is more binary than progressive. To be fast, you really have to take a leap of faith and trust the car. Corner exit - push the throttle to around 50% and if it sticks, push it all the way down. There's no smooth egg-preserving about it. It analog and requires brute force (and internal fortitude!)
3) I'm generally on board with late braking and early acceleration. But in the GT3, late braking can cause issues.
IMO, in a 996 GT3, THE key is to get the car rotated early with trail braking. Then you can get on the throttle to set the rear. Many (probably most) experienced drivers hold the trail to long and create a false limit.
-td
It's that leap of faith thing.
Best way to make the leap is to hire a good instructor?????
Craig
01-24-2017, 08:40 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Congrats on the 6 GT3.
And congrats on asking how to drive her.
I've been fortunate enough to be involved with road course since the mid 90's as a driver, racer, instructor, group leader and instructor trainer with PCA and NASA. Road America to Sears Point...or whatever you call it now.
I drove and raced "lesser" Porsches for years before jumping into my GT3.
Those experiences prepared me well. You are now driving the best car on the planet...... and I've been fortunate enough to turn a few laps over the years in quite a few lovely cars.
When driven correctly, it is a very rewarding Porsche to own.
Great advice given in the posts before this one.
Be smooth, deliberate. Gentle with throttle and braking inputs.
Someone said, "drive it like a cart". Very true. She will pivot well under braking and under acceleration. Ramp up your speed and and inputs gradually.
Nothing abrupt and you will be fine!
Welcome to the promised land......
And congrats on asking how to drive her.
I've been fortunate enough to be involved with road course since the mid 90's as a driver, racer, instructor, group leader and instructor trainer with PCA and NASA. Road America to Sears Point...or whatever you call it now.
I drove and raced "lesser" Porsches for years before jumping into my GT3.
Those experiences prepared me well. You are now driving the best car on the planet...... and I've been fortunate enough to turn a few laps over the years in quite a few lovely cars.
When driven correctly, it is a very rewarding Porsche to own.
Great advice given in the posts before this one.
Be smooth, deliberate. Gentle with throttle and braking inputs.
Someone said, "drive it like a cart". Very true. She will pivot well under braking and under acceleration. Ramp up your speed and and inputs gradually.
Nothing abrupt and you will be fine!
Welcome to the promised land......
01-30-2017, 09:13 PM
#20
Three Wheelin'
I went from E36 M3, E46 M3 to 996 TT -> 996 GT3 & E90 M3. So, I have a good feel about where you are coming from. As others said get the alignment setup correctly. The biggest difference is you have all the electronic nannies in the BMW and don't in the GT3. Going from my 996TT with PSM, all wheel drive to the GT3 was very intimidating.. The GT3 is not near is forgiving and you can get in a whole lot of trouble especially if you enter a corner with too much speed.
That said the GT3 tells you a lot through the seat and is like a surgeon with a scalpel. Treat it with respect and start out slow. Don't be in a rush to "go fast" and learn to be smooth. Take it easy with the inputs. Less is better. Over time you will be rewarded with the precision instrument. Best of Luck!
That said the GT3 tells you a lot through the seat and is like a surgeon with a scalpel. Treat it with respect and start out slow. Don't be in a rush to "go fast" and learn to be smooth. Take it easy with the inputs. Less is better. Over time you will be rewarded with the precision instrument. Best of Luck!
01-31-2017, 06:02 PM
#22
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Could you explain a little more? You mean buy a cheaper car to learn on? I have been driving 38 years, I can drive pretty well and pretty fast......I do a few track days a year and am probably an averagely skilled sports car driver - however, I am not a race driver, but I don't see how driving a different cheaper car is going to help me learn the idiosyncrasies of my GT3 ? The only way to learn to drive it as it needs to be without launching myself into the hedge, is surely to drive it? But with the benefit of some instruction and the useful tips others have posted here? Unless I have completely missed your point.....? Or maybe lack a sense of humour?
02-01-2017, 01:48 AM
#23
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
just drive the god damn car
a car is a car
soon a few time u figure it out.
it's not a space shuttle
a car is a car
soon a few time u figure it out.
it's not a space shuttle
02-01-2017, 04:26 AM
#24
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Unfortunately here in the UK, its freezing point, mostly raining, the roads are covered in salt and grease and its dark most of the day......I aint taking my new baby out in that crap.....
For a couple of months at least I will have to content myself with talking about driving on internet forums...and buying various bits for her
For a couple of months at least I will have to content myself with talking about driving on internet forums...and buying various bits for her
02-01-2017, 12:46 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
Reminds me of a story that happened to two friends of mine at the Ring, while going for a banzai lap in a Lotus Elise. So Dave, who instructs for Destination Nurburgring Track Days, is really on it. Driving flat out everywhere in his mildly tuned Elise, with Ross - another mad Nurburgring veteran - as a passenger. As they go through the blind left hander on the approach to Kesselschen flat out at about 120mph they see the track ahead completely blocked by mangled cars, which have all been involved in a shunt - a 996GT3, a 997GT3, a F355 and BMW E46 M3. All over the place, debris, fluids, the works... Dave goes to Ross "Mate, mate, what do we do? Looks like a big one is coming!!!" Ross - who has crashed at the Ring before - goes with a deadpan delivery "Dunno mate, just hit the cheapest!"
P.S> Somehow Dave threaded the Elise between the M3 and the Armco and managed to stop and help with the marshaling...
P.S> Somehow Dave threaded the Elise between the M3 and the Armco and managed to stop and help with the marshaling...
02-04-2017, 04:27 AM
#28
Rennlist Member