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Just read through the thread. Sorry to hear about the accident. Mercury sucks. that's why I'll never use them after having to deal with them as someone hit by one of their insureds. and it sucks even more that they're denying you. If you have emails saying you're covered, I would at MINIMUM, consult with an attorney. show them the emails and see what they say.
Update: I was able to get my car transported back to my garage last Saturday for free via AAA, so that was a relief. Long day (two separate tow service calls), but it's nice knowing that it's safe now.
I immediately removed the wheels and bumpers to better assess the damage. To my untrained eyes, it's hard to tell what exactly frame damage looks like. Does anyone have any tips on things/areas to inspect for impacts occurring in the driver's front and rear corners?
I knew the battery would be drained since it's been 2.5 months of sitting without a charge, people opening the doors, etc. I've had the car sitting on the trickle charger (CTEK 3300) for 3 days, but so far no sign of life. Is the battery toast, or should I keep it on and remain optimistic? Is there something else that could be keeping the accessories from powering on? I'd like to be able to pull the codes from the ecu if there are any.
Also, does anyone have any tips to open/remove the engine decklid? Unfortunately the hit to the driver's rear shifted it to the right about 1/2" and it doesn't want to budge. I've tugged on the emergency release cable and can hear it releasing the lock, so I know that isn't the problem.
Lastly, thanks everyone for the support. It's getting easier to accept what happened and understand that it's just a car and can be fixed/replaced. I've come to terms with the worst-case scenario (no payment from insurance whatsoever), and it will be alright.
Originally Posted by clsund1
Just read through the thread. Sorry to hear about the accident. Mercury sucks. that's why I'll never use them after having to deal with them as someone hit by one of their insureds. and it sucks even more that they're denying you. If you have emails saying you're covered, I would at MINIMUM, consult with an attorney. show them the emails and see what they say.
Thank you for the kind words. I feel somewhat liberated after switching away from them. I was a 5+ year customer and my parents had been with them for well over a decade...cars, house, etc. We've dropped it all because of how they chose to handle this situation. Not a big hit to their bottom line of course, but I will never speak positively of them again and hopefully that means something.
Mercury...inexpensive but as I life, you get what you pay for. A family vehicle was rear end at any actual stop light...with not visible sign of locking up the brakes- before it rear ended my car.. the excuse was, you were not moving...this was before the cell phone law. Mercury contacted me by phone and email...so they can send me $100.00 for my inconvenience. I responded back with, just fixed my car.. one day, I was watching a new event where insurance company would offer theother party this " token " $100.00 for their inconvenience. The hidden agenda was to pay me off $100.00, so I can accept that as any future lawsuits... smart move on Mercury.. its so unscrupulous for Mercury insurance to attempt this on my.. OP, good luck in reaching out to Mercury...as someone mentioned, if you have emailed correspondence from your Agent, they should be liable.
From your pictures, I wonder why you are looking at the frame now. You just want to get the car running and start going to find an empathetic, cooperative auto body shop owner/manager, right?
IF you hear the hood release, that is a "sign of life". Check the voltage. If it is about 12 volts it is about 25% charged and I think it will turn the starter. Otherwise try a bigger charger. I think there is a positive terminal in the engine compartment
The hood was open when you took the pictures, When you pull the emergency hood release, can you feel the click of the release? I have to futz with my cable and pull firmly at just the right angle to get it open. Also, try getting two people, one to futz with the cable and one to push down on the hood and/or pry up firmly with a large screwdriver
Last edited by black04; 02-10-2017 at 01:24 PM.
Reason: redacted because of content
Update: I was able to get my car transported back to my garage last Saturday for free via AAA, so that was a relief. Long day (two separate tow service calls), but it's nice knowing that it's safe now.
I immediately removed the wheels and bumpers to better assess the damage. To my untrained eyes, it's hard to tell what exactly frame damage looks like. Does anyone have any tips on things/areas to inspect for impacts occurring in the driver's front and rear corners?
I knew the battery would be drained since it's been 2.5 months of sitting without a charge, people opening the doors, etc. I've had the car sitting on the trickle charger (CTEK 3300) for 3 days, but so far no sign of life. Is the battery toast, or should I keep it on and remain optimistic? Is there something else that could be keeping the accessories from powering on? I'd like to be able to pull the codes from the ecu if there are any.
Also, does anyone have any tips to open/remove the engine decklid? Unfortunately the hit to the driver's rear shifted it to the right about 1/2" and it doesn't want to budge. I've tugged on the emergency release cable and can hear it releasing the lock, so I know that isn't the problem.
Lastly, thanks everyone for the support. It's getting easier to accept what happened and understand that it's just a car and can be fixed/replaced. I've come to terms with the worst-case scenario (no payment from insurance whatsoever), and it will be alright.
Thank you for the kind words. I feel somewhat liberated after switching away from them. I was a 5+ year customer and my parents had been with them for well over a decade...cars, house, etc. We've dropped it all because of how they chose to handle this situation. Not a big hit to their bottom line of course, but I will never speak positively of them again and hopefully that means something.
Your untrained eye is useless, worse than useless, in this situation. Even a trained eye would or should be connected to a brain that insisted upon actually measuring/checking the frame/tub/chassis for any damage.
The only way to determine there is any frame/tub damage -- any damage that has caused any critical hard points to be out of position -- is to partially disassemble the car -- which involves removing the wheels/tires and the front rear bumper covers (though of course in this case the "trained" eye could determine more disassembly is required) and place the car on a Celette Bench and with the proper gages/fixtures -- obtained (by renting) from Celette (Celette maintains these to ensure they are correct)) -- check the locations of the various hard points.
What it would take to address any that are out of position depends upon which ones are out of position and by how much.
In some cases it doesn't take much. For example when my 996 Turbo hit a mule deer the result was the metal shelf that runs along side the front trunk and to which the passenger fender bolts to was bent down. This shelf had to be brought back into proper position so the new fender fit with the same from the factory gaps and the headlight was properly positioned requiring only minimal adjustment to bring into correct adjustment.
If there is any damage to the tub proper this can require the section be pulled out or pushed out using some hydraulic jacks or other tools. In this case the body shop's training/skill and experience comes into play.
Porsche repair guidelines call for the car to be placed on an alignment bench (Celette is the brand the factory uses when it builds new cars) to ensure the car is "straight". No repair should be attempted until the car's tub/chassis/critical hard points are checked and are found or brought to be within proper location.
BTW, a diagram/chart/drawing of these showing their location and the tolerances for how close they have to be is available from Celette... some are available online though I don't have the link handy.
From your pictures, I wonder why you are looking at the frame now. You just want to get the car running and start going to find an empathetic, cooperative auto body shop owner/manager, right?
IF you hear the hood release, that is a "sign of life". Check the voltage. If it is about 12 volts it is about 25% charged and I think it will turn the starter. Otherwise try a bigger charger. I think there is a positive terminal in the engine compartment
The hood was open when you took the pictures, When you pull the emergency hood release, can you feel the click of the release? I have to futz with my cable and pull firmly at just the right angle to get it open. Also, try getting two people, one to futz with the cable and one to push down on the hood and/or pry up firmly with a large screwdriver
More curious than anything, I suppose. I'm mechanically intrigued and have the car on jackstands, so I'm just curious if it's something I can visibly discern. Doesn't sound like it.
I should claify - I have the hood open with no issues. My issue is with the decklid.
As of now, if I turn the key to accessory, I'm not getting any sign of power. No lights anywhere, nothing. I suppose it must be the battery since the lights, etc. still powered on after the crash. I just wasn't in the frame of mind to think about pulling codes at that point.
Originally Posted by Macster
Your untrained eye is useless, worse than useless, in this situation. Even a trained eye would or should be connected to a brain that insisted upon actually measuring/checking the frame/tub/chassis for any damage.
The only way to determine there is any frame/tub damage -- any damage that has caused any critical hard points to be out of position -- is to partially disassemble the car -- which involves removing the wheels/tires and the front rear bumper covers (though of course in this case the "trained" eye could determine more disassembly is required) and place the car on a Celette Bench and with the proper gages/fixtures -- obtained (by renting) from Celette (Celette maintains these to ensure they are correct)) -- check the locations of the various hard points.
What it would take to address any that are out of position depends upon which ones are out of position and by how much.
In some cases it doesn't take much. For example when my 996 Turbo hit a mule deer the result was the metal shelf that runs along side the front trunk and to which the passenger fender bolts to was bent down. This shelf had to be brought back into proper position so the new fender fit with the same from the factory gaps and the headlight was properly positioned requiring only minimal adjustment to bring into correct adjustment.
If there is any damage to the tub proper this can require the section be pulled out or pushed out using some hydraulic jacks or other tools. In this case the body shop's training/skill and experience comes into play.
Porsche repair guidelines call for the car to be placed on an alignment bench (Celette is the brand the factory uses when it builds new cars) to ensure the car is "straight". No repair should be attempted until the car's tub/chassis/critical hard points are checked and are found or brought to be within proper location.
BTW, a diagram/chart/drawing of these showing their location and the tolerances for how close they have to be is available from Celette... some are available online though I don't have the link handy.
I appreciate the information. I'll see if I can find some of the Celette information online, but now I don't think the potential frame damage is anything that I'll be able to see. It does make me wonder what the procedure is that the insurance co. used to check it. It was obvious that they hadn't removed the bumpers, maybe just the wheels since the lugs weren't torqued to spec.
<<<...I should claify - I have the hood open with no issues. My issue is with the decklid.>>>
Whoops I can't read. The same techniques to force the lid open apply.
<<<As of now, if I turn the key to accessory, I'm not getting any sign of power. No lights anywhere, nothing. I suppose it must be the battery since the lights, etc. still powered on after the crash. I just wasn't in the frame of mind to think about pulling codes at that point.">>>
Of course the battery is dead, but that doesn't mean it is bad. Check the voltage and/or SG. If it is too low, that would explain the light situation. The trickle charger (actually a float charger) is only meant to maintain the voltage, not actually charge a low battery. I don't know if it could bring a dead 11.7 volt battery back up to 12.0v in a week.
Get a 10 amp, or better a 30amp I think, charger and in an hour you will know if you need a new battery or not.
Check your fuses. You never know what happened since you last saw the car.
There might be an impact sensitive relay that shuts the fuel pump off in an accident. Look into that while the battery is charging.
<<<Porsche repair guidelines call for the car to be placed on an alignment bench (Celette is the brand the factory uses when it builds new cars) to ensure the car is "straight". No repair should be attempted until the car's tub/chassis/critical hard points are checked and are found or brought to be within proper location.
BTW, a diagram/chart/drawing of these showing their location and the tolerances for how close they have to be is available from Celette... some are available online though I don't have the link handy.>>>
Here is the Celette rental page.
Apparently the local autobody shop with the Celette jig, rents the GT3-specific fixtures, as it is not practical for them to own the 20+ Porsche and 100's of other model-specific equipment.
Also from the Celette website
Note that you are at step 1 of the Process "DIAGNOSTICS" :-)
More curious than anything, I suppose. I'm mechanically intrigued and have the car on jackstands, so I'm just curious if it's something I can visibly discern. Doesn't sound like it.
I should claify - I have the hood open with no issues. My issue is with the decklid.
As of now, if I turn the key to accessory, I'm not getting any sign of power. No lights anywhere, nothing. I suppose it must be the battery since the lights, etc. still powered on after the crash. I just wasn't in the frame of mind to think about pulling codes at that point.
I appreciate the information. I'll see if I can find some of the Celette information online, but now I don't think the potential frame damage is anything that I'll be able to see. It does make me wonder what the procedure is that the insurance co. used to check it. It was obvious that they hadn't removed the bumpers, maybe just the wheels since the lugs weren't torqued to spec.
You won't be able to see it without the car on a Celette bench and with the appropriate gages/fixtures attached to the bench by which one can then check/determine how close the hard points are to where they should be.
We are talking about in some cases positioning that should be within a 1/16th of an inch or less.
I have attached a pic of my Turbo on a Celette bench when the process of repairing it after a mule deer hit was begun.
Almost certainly the insurance company didn't check the car on a Celette bench. And it is unlikely it paid to have a body shop check the car on a Celette bench.
My experience is an estimate is created by at least the insurance company (an adjuster) and the body shop. These always differ. It is no surprise the insurance company adjuster's estimate is always low. Where do you think "Aw, that will buff right out." came from?
Even the body shop's estimate is low as invariably as the repair progresses more damage is found. A co-worker hit a deer a while back. No tub/chassis damage, not even any damage to the radiator, A/C condenser. Air bags deployed though. Driver's side. Passenger's side. Side air bags. No injuries thank goodness.
The co-worker has had the car in the shop nearly a month now. We talked the other day and he said he has been in touch with the body shop about the car how the repair is going and was told the shop found another $1000 or so worth of damage that it has to get approval from the insurance company and is waiting for the insurance company to get back.
In the case of my 996 Turbo the mule deer hit repair cost increased by around $5K (to around $25K total) as the repair progressed and additional/deeper damage was found.
The best way to asses the damage is to have the car dismantled to a point where all the damage is visible. It obviously needs unibody straightening and the above mentioned bench is the way to go. The supplement repair should not be to expensive since the car was damaged all around and not hard in one area. I would not be afraid to repair this car, just choose a good body shop.
You can open the hood from inside the wheel well one the drivers side. There is a wire that sticks out behind the wheel well liner in front of the wheel and on the trunk side when the plastic is removed. Pull o that as hard as you can until hood releases. I used a strong pliers to grab it.
My GT3 was involved in a wreck and I'm almost done fixing it. It cost about 15-17k when all done to fix and that was no paint damage other than replacing front bumper cover (cost $3,500 used) and paint for that as it was a different color when I sourced it.
Bets of luck and keep us posted. Hopefully the insurance will pay up.
Last option would be to buy it back from insurance (unsure if you already did this or not) and then sell to dismantler. I have seen them pay up to 40k for car with sound mechanicals... The motor alone they would sell for 20k (maybe more) and that's without the trans. I bet you could sell that for close to 40k.
Best of luck!
you need to read the thread before posting. The engine lid not the hood won't open. Insurance did not cover the accident so he already owns the car and does not need to make any deal with insurance.
Sorry to see such a nice car get this kind of damage.. bright side is that you didn't get damaged! we can replace cars!
Originally Posted by black04
From your pictures, I wonder why you are looking at the frame now. You just want to get the car running and start going to find an empathetic, cooperative auto body shop owner/manager, right?
The hood was open when you took the pictures, When you pull the emergency hood release, can you feel the click of the release? I have to futz with my cable and pull firmly at just the right angle to get it open. Also, try getting two people, one to futz with the cable and one to push down on the hood and/or pry up firmly with a large screwdriver
I don't think that car is going anywhere unless its being flat-bedded. From the initial picture the LF wheel looks well out of alignment and I'm sure there are numerous under-trays broken loose at this point. And with as long as the car has been sitting, hood or deck partially ajar, and numerous ins/outs etc.. the battery is probably done. It may charge but not hold.. I'd just buy a battery, do what needs to be done and then unhook the ground. Shouldn't be a problem when you need it again.
Originally Posted by Macster
Your untrained eye is useless, worse than useless, in this situation. Even a trained eye would or should be connected to a brain that insisted upon actually measuring/checking the frame/tub/chassis for any damage.
The only way to determine there is any frame/tub damage -- any damage that has caused any critical hard points to be out of position -- is to partially disassemble the car -- which involves removing the wheels/tires and the front rear bumper covers (though of course in this case the "trained" eye could determine more disassembly is required) and place the car on a Celette Bench and with the proper gages/fixtures -- obtained (by renting) from Celette (Celette maintains these to ensure they are correct)) -- check the locations of the various hard points.
Not necessarily all true.. If you know your car, even the untrained eye may be able to pick-up on some additional damage. As far as the trained eye.. you don't need to start out with "measuring/checking the frame/tub/chassis for any damage." One knows where to look, and what to look for. Chassis measurements will come later, after and initial estimate and approval to start tearing down the car.
Further, just because a shop has a Cellette doesn't mean they're good with it. And not all shops rent their jigs/fixtures.. many do because they can't afford to own them.. others do because they're working on so many makes it doesn't make sense to try to own them. A shop that does marque specific work will have they're own jigs/fixtures and know the specifics of the vehicle a lot better.
<<<Porsche repair guidelines call for the car to be placed on an alignment bench (Celette is the brand the factory uses when it builds new cars) to ensure the car is "straight"
BTW, a diagram/chart/drawing of these showing their location and the tolerances for how close they have to be is available from Celette... some are available online though I don't have the link handy.>>>
Apparently the local autobody shop with the Celette jig, rents the GT3-specific fixtures, as it is not practical for them to own the 20+ Porsche and 100's of other model-specific equipment.
The chart shown is model specific but general in nature. It shows all the possible fixtures that can be used.. However, when used they are broken out further for the type of repair being done, i.e., front-rear, engine in/engine out, front/rear suspension in/out, or a combination thereof. Also, the diagram does not show the clamps used secure the tub.
That being said, you can expect the charge to range from half to full day of labor just to set-up the bench and get the car on it.
Repeat: just because a shop has a Cellette doesn't mean they're good with it. And not all shops rent their jigs/fixtures.. many do because they can't afford to own them.. others do because they're working on so many makes it doesn't make sense to try to own them. A shop that does marque specific work will have they're own jigs/fixtures and know the specifics of the vehicle a lot better.
I appreciate all of the input everyone. More than I ever wanted to know about the ins and outs of frame damage, but it's useful knowledge nonetheless.
In the minimal free time that I've had lately (and while waiting for something to happen with the case I submitted to the CA Dept of Insurance), I've been working on clearing away the damaged parts to see how deep the repairs will need to go. The frame damage in the rear is especially obvious now:
I also feel relieved about the coolant that leaked out after the impact. I got under the car, and it appears that the leak originated from what I think is a rubber hose at the bottom left rear of the engine that probably cracked or split on impact. No signs of coolant leaking from anywhere else.
Still haven't had success getting the decklid open, and I don't think I will. I think the fact that the cover is shifted to the right about 1/2" isn't allowing the latch to fully release, and from diagrams there doesn't seem to be an alternative way to access it.
I still don't see any obvious frame damage at the front. If there is, it has to be minor (IMO). The LF control arm snapped into two pieces at the hub and the tie rod has an ugly bend in it, but everything else appears fine.
02-09-2017, 06:27 PM
