Christobol

Hi guys, I'm fairly new to the forum and wanted to throw out an idea I'm having.

I'm taking over my father's 2002 C2 Cab 6-Spd. It only has 29k miles, and in 2005 the dealership replaced the engine under warranty at 18k miles for a "oil leak" saying the engine block was porous. Though it sounds like they were just using a generic term back then for a lack of knowledge maybe. So it's not clear if the new engine has the updated IMS bearing but it definitely doesn't have an aftermarket replacement.

I'm considering selling it and buying a slightly newer 4S Coupe to use at the track or AutoX. I thought I would throw the idea out there to get people's opinions before I do anything other than drive the car home next week.

Due to the low mileage I *thought* I might be able to do the car exchange for zero cost, or close to zero cost as I'm sure I'll need to put money into whatever car I buy to make it a bit more track worthy.

A mechanic I spoke with suggested getting a 2004 or 2005, **I do realize the 2005 4S has the 997 body**[this was clarified it's a wide body so it is still the 996 body], but it sounds like it still has the same engine and maybe the 4 wheel drive system? I haven't researched this much so please excuse my ignorance.

Beyond thoughts on the general idea, reading various threads some of the comments threw up questions and rather than hijack that thread I thought I'd include them in this thread:

-Someone said the 996 4 has the old viscus AWD that isn't always on. Could someone shed more light on this? Are there different versions between the 99, 02, 05? Is the 2005 that much different than say a 2009?

-If the AWD in the 2002-2005 4 system is inferior, is it still considered a worthy upgrade for track and AutoX use?

-Does anyone have a better suggestion for a 911 track, AutoX vehicle? [added] While still driving to and from an event. So not that dedicated.

-Does it sound plausible that I can sell a well taken care of single owner 2002 Cab with say 32k miles for a single owner 60k 2005 4S Coupe? (I will keep the car in his name for the sale so it remains a single owner vehicle)

Kalashnikov

$0.02.

Any 911 will be an expensive auto-x/track car. Unless you are 100% committed to having a 911 as your race car and have the money to spend, other brands are better options.

For the money you get from selling the vert you can get: S2000, Mazdaspeed Miata, 370z nismo, WRX STI, E46 M3, Evo X. All of the cars I listed will perform close to 996's level in the auto-x, but will be cheaper to run. In case of "oh sh*t" happening with Porsche engine during the race, you are looking at $15k-$20k; should the same happen to any of the alternatives, you are looking at 1/2 to 1/10th of the price to remedy the situation.

Christobol

I definitely plan on sticking with the 911 because the support for racing is so much greater than simply SCCA or private groups.

I just don't know if the 2004 is considered perfectly equal to a 2005 4S.

BTW maybe I was unclear, I'm getting a Cabriolet and moving to a Coupe.

WalterRohrl

A 2005 C4S is still the 996 body etc... The wide body cars (C4S, Turbo) didn't transition until the next year while the narrow bodies became 997s for the 2005 model year.

Do people actually "race" C4S's? Maybe for AutoX and trackdays since it's what they have and can drive there and home but for actual "racing" I think a C2 would be more desirable as it's lighter, faster, and more nimble (assuming a competent driver).

You might be better served by a Boxster S or certainly a Cayman S actually. No shortage of support for either.

I think a 60k mile well taken care of C4S will generally always be worth more than a 32k mile C2 Cab unless you can really take the time and are able to sell high and buy low but the time factor will suck up the savings. All things being equal now is the time of year that a C4S will be worth the most and a C2 Cab the least. At least your car is a stick, if it was auto it'd be the least desirable combination even if it was among the most expensive when new. But presumably you are looking for a manual C4S as well.

KNS

Yep - A C4S coupe (with a manual) will always be worth more than a cab (the sexy body is the selling point, not the fact that it's a C4). Absolutely worst combo to have is a C4 automatic cabriolet.

Christobol

Walter,

Thanks for clarifying the body changes. That helps make sense of some confusing things I've heard.

You're right I do want a manual. I don't mind waiting until the spring or summer to sell the car as I'm not in a rush at all. And I do realize the cab is worth the least this time of year but I hadn't considered the 4S is worth more, though it makes total sense.

I have to admit that moving to a Boxster isn't appealing as I've always disliked the look of the car. That Cayman S is compelling, I guess giving it more thought would be good. I haven't looked at the values of used Caymans so my knowledge is limited.

You also pointed out that I wouldn't be really racing as I don't intend of trailer a car to and even right now. The most I've done in the past is swapping wheels/tires while at the track. I don't see that happening with a 911 as there isn't room without a trailer.

Triple Black

I remember a guy that drove to track days at the Ridge with 4 track tires in his 997 (don't remember if it was a C4S or a C2S). I imagine if it can be done in a 997 it could also be done in a 996.

Generally speaking, a C2 will make a better track car than a C4, though it is possible to remove the front drive and turn the C4 into a rear wheel drive.

Christobol

Triple, I can understand why the C2S would have more power and be better in straight line performance over a C4S, or even in moderately twisty courses. Since I can't claim to follow racing that closely I just assumed that more often than not the thrust traction from the front two wheels with this much HP would an overall benefit for most courses.

If the C2S is typically faster then that reduces some complications. I've only AutoX'ed and minor wheel to wheel RWD cars on a consistent basis. I've taken AWD and FWD vehicles out on fun days when everyone in my old club club would switch cars every AutoX lap. Each of those laps in someone else's car was worth 20 laps in mine from a learning perspective.

Is there a place to lookup season rankings for AutoX times just for Porsches as well as class times comparing stock C2S to C4S as well as modified C2S vs C4S?

Thank all of you for the input btw.

TonyTwoBags

is a similar age boxster/cayman + voluntary rebuild an option? seems like that could yield a decent track setup for less than 30k.

VivG

So, in the 996 generation, there was no C2S - the only way to get a naturally aspirated widebody car is the C4S. I know of at least a couple of forum members that have converted their AWD Carreras to RWD, and it seems like a relatively straightforward process.

One of them, Vandersmith, has a pretty detailed thread about tracking his RWD C4S. That may be worth reading through - https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post13471837

Christobol

Wow that's a very enlightening thread. I guess there is quite a difference between a C4S and a C2(S).

Tony, I guess doing a rebuild is an option. I must admit I'm not being rational in desire to stick with a Carrera. I'll explore it a bit.

jhbrennan

All you have to do is Google "996 C4S" and you can find lots of info. Here's just one example:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...11-carrera-4s/

Christobol

I've read a number of articles. I just haven't seen race/AutoX results showing which vehicle is faster when at the same level of stock/mods.

I'll be picking up the car in Austin next week, know anyone that lives in Costa Bella?

Dharn55

Many people prefer the feel of a C2 but contrary yo common belief a C4 will consistently lap faster than a C2.

Vdubjetta02

I prefer the C2 over the C4s due to the weight advantage/different handling characteristics and that I just like RWD sports car... but mostly I like how little the C2 weighs after some minor weight reduction.