studio112

Good day all. I added the Numeric shifter to my 02 C4s last Fall and loved it; install was a success and not too complicated. I purchased the cables later, and installed them last week. All seemed fine, but I can't shift into 2nd. gear, it just wants to grind on entry so I don't force it. I have been in communication with Dan at Numeric Racing multiple times sharing videos and photos of my situation. He has been very generous with his time and advice, but he is out of ideas on how to resolve my problem. Checking cable measurements (for the right side cable, gear selector), my cable seems correct according to Dan.
When I put the Numeric and original Porsche cables side by side, the Porsche cable is approx. 1/2'' shorter than the Numeric(at it's max. adjustment inward),which could explain why it won't engage 2nd. gear. All the other gears engage fine including reverse.
If anyone has had similar experiences like mine please add your thoughts. I am ready to put the original cable back on and call it a week, but I really would like to succeed with the Numeric which should work.
There is something I am missing or not doing right, or the cable is not the right size.I should also mention that the Numeric cable at the Transmission connection is adjusted completely in towards the front of the car, no more adjustment possible; I even removed the locking nut to gain an extra 1/8th. of an inch. The shifter up front is adjusted vertical in both directions. Again, it shifts smooth and properly for "all gears" except 2nd.
I am worn out trying to solve this working on the ground without a lift.

Slakker

Sounds like your next step is to get the shifter alignment tool to realign the cables. The good news is it's cheap, the bad news is you will have to reinstall the original shifter to use it.

I will be interested in how it turns out because the numeric cables are on my list of future mods as well.

Function-First

The shifter alignment tool has no impact on anything downstream of the shifter. Its only purpose is to align the shift lever within its cradle. That said, you'll have to pull the center console out to see if you can't engage 2nd gear because the shift lever is running out of travel within its cradle.

To isolate your problem, unhook the cables from the shifter unit. If the problem lied on the transmission end of the system, whereby you can't engage 2nd because the cable runs out of travel, then you'd likely be having difficulty engaging 4th and 6th as well - any problems at all with those gears?

You can test if there's enough travel on the Trans side by popping the cable off the transmission fore/aft gear selector lever, popping the Trans into second gear by hand, and hovering the cable ball end over the gear lever ball socket to see if they would line up. If the gear lever ball socket is able to line up with the shifter cable end with some travel to spare, then you're ok on the Trans side - which means the problem lies upstream on the shifter side. If the cable can not line up with the selector arm, then you'll need to either modify the mounting bracket to space the cable anchor farther away from the gear selector, or you'll need to purchase a shorter cable rod end to bring the cable end in line with the gear selector, or you'll need a cable that's within spec.

Hope all that makes sense, there are a lot of moving parts and adjustability within your system. But definitely resolve the issues before driving, because you'll trash your transmission if you drive around with a gear partially engaged!

Slakker

That's not my understanding, it's for adjusting out the cables properly. Here's a link to an example where the OP was having the same issue.

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...uick-note.html

Function-First

The alignment tool holds the shift lever in place to snap the shifter cable ends onto the shifter cables. It has no impact on the placement of the cables themselves. Basically, the alignment tool is a quick way to ensure that the shift lever is situated in the shifter cradle such that it has uninhibited free range of motion to engage every gear.

Slakker

It is also used for cable adjustment. I have never used it but Loren on Renntech always recommends using the alignment tool to properly adjust the cables. Ahsai can chime in if he chooses for an expert opinion (I'm just a novice hack who reads alot.)

http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic...er-adjustment/

http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic...gnment+%2Btool

Function-First

To re-iterate for the OP, aligning the shifter MIGHT solve his problem engaging 2nd gear if the problem is due to the shift lever interfering with the shifter cradle. That should be easy to spot once the center console is removed. And we're both correct that he should check that first before playing with any other adjustments.

But aligning the shifter is completely independent of the shifter cables. That's why the shift lever unit is disconnected from the shift cables when using the alignment tool. If OP's problem is indeed on the transmission end, aligning the shifter unit can't do anything to help.

Slakker

We may be saying the same thing. The way to insure proper cable length adjustment is to center the shifter using the alignment tool and then adjust the cables to correlate. Right?

Function-First

What I'm trying to say is that the cable lengths, which you can only adjust on Numeric or Cup cables bc they have threaded ends, are entirely independent of the shifter itself.

Take for example the OEM cables, which have no adjustability at all. They snap into the transmission bracket and the shifter cradle bracket, and they just sit there. Then, you'll use the shifter alignment tool to ensure that the shift lever is centered within the shift cradle, and you'll snap the shift lever cable ends onto the shifter cables - but this action has no influence on the cable location themselves. Basically, the only reason shift lever re-alignment is recommended is in the event that the cables have stretched over time, which would move the shift lever off center. And again, centering the shift lever is just a quick way to ensure that the lever won't contact the inside walls of the shifter cradle.


So for the OP, there are really only 3 scenarios causing his issue in 2nd gear:
1. the shift lever is contacting the inner wall of the shifter cradle, which isn't allowing 2nd gear to fully engage
2. the shifter cable rod end at the transmission is too long, which is preventing the cable from retracting enough to fully engage 2nd gear at the gear selector arm (OP's first picture is indicative of this)
3. some combination of both

alpine003

And just to clarify, the alignment tool only works on OEM or modified OEM shifters but not new aftermarket custom assemblies like the Numeric.

studio112

Thanks F1 for your input. As I stated all gears except 2nd. work fine. I have always thought the right cable is too long and that could be the problem when I test the alignment at the the transmission end, there is no extra when the lever is pushed forward into 2nd. gear position, but lots of extra travel when the lever is at the rear position for 1st. gear or 3rd. or 5th. I am going to recheck the selector cable again (5th. time) then check the cable and shifter alignment in the cab. also, as I said the original cable is 1/2" shorter measured between the rod end and the washer which connects to the mount with the large nut; the section showing in my 2nd. photo, cable in the foreground. I have a friend coming by to help maybe with two of us, (one at the shifter and the other at the transmission)we might figure it out.

vandersmith

I have both as well and love them. 2nd gear is technically the longest throw as the bottom of the shifter pivots in the cable recepticle. I could see how this would only affect 2nd.

The lengths are probably fine. It most likely needs to be lengthened, not shortened at the shifter adjustment (pull the console and check) and possibly at the transmission connection. Theres quite a bit of fine tuning you can do between each. I'll see if I can find photos of mine for reference.

studio112

Update.
So now I can shift into 2nd ,

only if I shift firmly (aggressive pull on lever). If I shift normally it will not engage and want to grind. There is no further adjustment available at the transmission end; I even removed the small locking nut to gain an extra 3/16" forward travel on the right cable.
Does anyone have a Numeric cable on their bench that we could compare measurements at the Trans. end? That would tell me if it is too long to engage the shift.
Looking for measurement between the washer on the left of upper cable to the end of socket on right; cable is fully screwed in and pushed in toward the other end.

studio112

The shifter is free to travel in all directions in cab. The arm doesn't touch housing anywhere.

JMLavoie

At the numericracing.com home page, there are 2 short videos that show you how to install these numeric cables at both ends: Trans and Shifter.
If you have not seen, these might help.
Bonne chance!