Schnell Gelb

O.K. this is yet another justification to install the "Solution" - because it is tolerant of a shaft defect(& others yet unknown?) that alternative bearings are much less tolerant of.

Part of our reluctance to dismiss all other IMSB alternatives and just install the Solution is the cost because it is Pro install only - no diy. I am fine with that. Just a pity.
But if I was offered a diy Solution at a reasonable price I would remove my (new) single row IMSB with my LN tools, buy the new Faultless tools and install a Solution . I understand why Jake/LN will not do this to protect their product reputation from screw-ups by diy people(like me !)
The only high-load option I have for a diy upgrade is a cylindrical roller bearing kit ?

AWDGuy

ims solution isn't DIY?

though we just had a thread on it....

Flat6 Innovations

You can buy an IMS Solution kit from www.rndeuroparts.com when units are in stock. Though the product won't have any warranty unless installed by a Pro, you can still buy and install one...

You'll even receive product support from The Knowledge Gruppe to help assist you with any complications.(only if bought from RND!)

The Solution has become extremely popular in the last 24 months of the 5 years that it's been on the market. Wholesalers upped their purchase orders, and they still sell out in 45 days or so. The last run was finished in July and was sold out in less than one month, today no one has any in stock, but another run will be done in about 3 weeks.

My engines have IMS shaft assemblies that have been checked for runout, and have since the beginning. That's probably one reason why we've never had a failure.

The he other guys, well, they learned about this problem at the same time that you guys did. They wouldn't have figured it out on their own- that's for sure.

Schnell Gelb

Sorry ,yes - Pro install to get a warranty .

docmirror

Can bet Porsche knew in about 03 or so. I wish those run-out shafts were avail to the court during the class action. I would love to see someone up on the stand with a group of 16 new shafts and have 5-7 of them fail their own spec, whatever it might be. No way is >.003" acceptable to any machinist these days. That's the kind of slop I would see in a 1940s Buick engine.

This also lends some strength to the idea that these failures happen at low mileage examples. There's no way that slop is going to run +50k miles like that. I'm betting that an engine that makes it to ~50k miles has a decent shaft in it and a dual row bearing. Conversely, an engine with a bent shaft might go through 3 bearings in 100k miles. The same failure mode causing the same damage due to the same crap tolerance.

Imo000

This is how theories become internet realities. The other end of the IMS is a simple bearing and since they tolerate a wobble better, the ball bearing on the other end would see a lot less than the total runout of .003". We need hard data from a first hand experience before "speculating".

docmirror

If you didn't go to the drop box and view the pictures with the run-out labelled I guess you're right about speculation. Since Jake and Navarro have some reputation here, I'm relying on them not being complete bone-heads on how to measure run-out. Couple that with the failure rates and failure modes and we are way beyond speculation.

Run-out is a killer for rotating assemblies. I've been down this road before. The failures of the IMS are not a theory, they are very real.

Schnell Gelb

"We need hard data from a first hand experience "
Jake just gave us that.
In terms of fixing our own engines (which is what interests most of us?) - the next stage is to learn the best way to measure the run-out of the shaft. I doubt it is just a standard test on V-blocks +dial indicator because we are measuring run-out not just roundness.

TonyTwoBags

Shaft defect theory is something that helped put me at ease on this whole M96 thing. I get it that the M96 has interior parts made of chocolate - that's ok. What I want to do is prolong its life and plan for the eventual rebuild with as little stress & drama as possible. And the most driving fun permissible. So my plan is:

- yank ball bearing IMS retrofit that's a few years old (done)
- install IMSS, get full engine review (done)
- get on an oil regimen that looks after the high temperature risk to the M96 (done)
- convert to low temp thermostat (pending- next summer)
- save for rebuild of M96 to a 3.8 or 4.0 spec (hopefully 5+ years away, but be ready for it as soon as 2018)
- drive the ever loving **** out of the 996 (hooning in process)

It's great to hear about the proliferation of the IMSS - that tells me consumers are learning what is up with the ims design flaw & used inventory is being upgraded to improve the quality of the cars. As long as the other 3,453,895 modes of failure don't flare up the 996s should leapfrog 964 values

Schnell Gelb

"yank ball bearing IMS retrofit that's a few years old (done)"
Done with what ? NUP204E ?

TonyTwoBags

I'm a tremendous hack when it comes to wrenching. The install was done by a certified tech, warranty in place on the imss. Old retrofit is somewhere in an LNE stockroom.

JMLavoie

Since very few of these IMS are truly 'true', what would you consider acceptable/permissible to use in an M96 engine: less than .002?

USNA1970

It would be interesting to know what the UOA of the OP's oil when he first noticed the large pieces of IMSB race on his magnetic drain filter. I am assuming iron PPM would've been pretty elevated.

DrMEMS

Sorry, but no oil analysis was done. One mechanic initially suggested that, but because there were already visible ferromagnetic particles (iron) on the drain plug, we figured an oil analysis wouldn't tell us anything new.

docmirror

How about sending the shaft to Jake for run-out check? If I were in the LN company, I would be learning a lot about the IMS in your engine right away. Measurements should be taken consistently to compare readings.