Sneaky Pete

Any comments on this?

Sneaky Pete

Or this?

MBMotorsports

Again, this is exactly what I was talking about, done here in US. It had no right to last, it's too thin and during work it will bend and overheat. I've seen this before in my shop, cylinder fell inside. I understand why you defend your product, but you cannot compare my product to this crap. I'm here till the end of this month, come by and I can show you how it's done. I can even take an engine apart after high mileage and show you what these cylinders look like.
I'm glad you came to the same conclusion as me- roller bearings are more durable. Now that you will start selling them, why did you start arguing with me over these bearings in the first place? If you both claimed that idea of a roller bearing was crappy and now you're going to sell them yourself, why did we have the public war in the first place? It's both of you who said this is not a good idea and defended your ball bearings. I don't get it, you were also my first customer who purchased my roller bearing a couple years ago You paid for it and had it shipped to Flat6. I don't care, but it really makes me laugh how you are trying so hard not to loose your money.
I think I'm starting to have regrets about our public fights, we should have combined my product and your name and make a lot of money, lol. Just joking in case anyone wondered!
I'd like to see all Jake's followers faces who were backing both of you up at the time we were arguing. I have a great idea! Jake and Charles, you both should run for president, you have all the right qualities! Every time I listen to what you have to say it's different!
Who knows, maybe you will start selling steel cylinders pretty soon? Never say never...When you start selling your roller bearings send me one as an appreciation gift.
Good luck

MBMotorsports

Let me refresh your memory Charles. You were the first ones to purchase my bearing and both you and Jake gave your "professional" opinion on the 986 forum. This is how it all started. I did not just start attacking your company out of the blue, I don't care what you both do. I was defending my products and services which in Jakes opinion were crap.

Flat6 Innovations

Your actions speak so loudly that I can't hear what you are saying.....

Ahsai

Looks like splashed oil lubricated? Also based on what Charles wrote on post #338, does it mean this bearing was tested and approved by Jake as a viable alternative to the LN ceramic bearing? Definitely want more details.

Flat6 Innovations

I learned my lesson about "approving" anything.

That goes back to why I only offer engines for sale.

Sneaky Pete

Its an alternative for sure. I'll leave it to RND (Charles and Jake) to comment on.

Imo000

It's fascinating how little by little the truth comes out. There is also alot of good technical information and discussion happening. Some personal attacks too but it taperred off at bit.

True gearheads share information to better the rest of the DIY community so any good info is worth it's weight in good. If something is inferrior to another product then there is no shame admiting to it.

Are roller berrings better suited for M96 intermediate shafts than ball bearings?

Charles Navarro

Don't flatter yourself, we bought one of every one's bearing to see what was being offered on the market as an evaluation for SSF.

The RND roller is being offered as a less expensive option for those who want to use a roller bearing. Again, this is being offered at the request of SSF Auto Parts because their sales guys were responding to a demand for a roller bearing kit. Again, SSF came to us first.

No steel cylinders. I've already done those. I made biral (steel lined aluminum cylinders) years ago. They didn't perform anywhere near as well as our Nickies, so we dropped them. We would have never considered steel sleeves for this application with our past experience with them.

Again, a ceramic bearing with sintered silicon nitride ***** was a logical choice for wear mitigation considering we brought to market ceramic cam followers almost 14 years ago to fix cam lifter failures due to excessive wear, until we discovered it was the oil causing the failures. Then we moved on.

Common thread here - you can never stop trying new things and learning. If there is any constant, it's that things change. You see this as a negative, I see this as a positive.

Charles Navarro

I would say they work just as well. Our bearing engineer preferred the choice of the ceramic hybrid ball bearing over a roller bearing since the bearing must provide all thrust control and the original bearings always showed signs of excessive thrust loading when failing.

The roller bearing supplied with the RND kit is equivalent in load capacity to a dual row ims bearing, however a ball bearing can carry half of it's load as thrust where a roller bearing can carry only about 10% of it's total load as thrust. An extended load range bearing along with true thrust control improves this significantly.

Will a roller bearing outlast a dual row ceramic hybrid bearing? That is the question of the century. To date, not a single dual row ceramic bearing has failed and that's what's used in the Classic Dual Row and Single Row Pro kit. What I can state is that we're using the highest quality extended load range roller bearing available on the market that has an integral, 52100 series, heat treated thrust surface on both faces of the bearing, which is certainly unique to this kit. This bearing is hard to come by. No supplier had them in the US and they had to come out of the UK and there were only 450 in the world available. Again, our supplier is top notch and makes sure we are supplied with the best bearings possible, not the Romanian URB and Chinese roller bearings floating out on the market currently.

Flat6 Innovations

For the record:
All of my engines use the IMS Solution, exclusively. If someone requests something different, I request that they find another builder.

I invented the product for my engines, and I will only use the simplest, most effective, and best component available. It doesn't matter what it costs, as costs are always tertiary to reliability and longevity.

Of all the things we've developed, the IMS Solution is my baby.

Charles Navarro

Yes, it's a viable alternative we evaluated years ago - that's the reason we were able to go from request to finished product in less than 8 weeks is that we had already done all the work.

For the same reason, we took years to come out with the IMS Solution, because there is always resistance to change, especially new products. If we can rewind and go back to 2008 or even earlier, everything Jake and I did wasn't easily accepted. We earned our acceptance. One reason for a choice of a ball bearing is that Porsche chose a ball bearing, not a roller bearing. They changed the bearing three times - they could have easily gone to a roller bearing. But this would have been hard for the aftermarket to accept at the time since most believed the problem was made up and that Porsche in fact did not have a problem.

Sorry Martin, you shouldn't take this personally. It took me over half a decade to be accepted by the industry through hard work. I had to prove myself. It doesn't come overnight.

Charles Navarro

Ahsai, thanks for asking about this. The M96/M97 is wet sumped. Has been and always will be unless you pay someone gobs of money to make it dry sumped using a belt driven external pump like on a dragster. The IMS is submerged in oil. Just look at a picture of the rear of the M96 engine. The IMS is sitting at the bottom of the sump. If there is no oil there to lubricate it, there is no oil for the pickup to deliver to the engine.

Flat6 Innovations

Its enough oil for an IMS Solution to run with no oil line attached, and live through 7,000 RPM dyno pulls, and 15 miles on the street.

Who wants to see it on video?

I think its time that I start my old Podcast back up again.......