swordsmn

New guy here, been dreaming of a P-car since age 18 in 1974
I ran across a 2003 C4S at a local dealer 51k miles. Listed at 35,950
Dealer said pads looked 100%, tires 75% rear , better in front.
Got into negotiations and best price was 33500.

Most my credit union would loan at 2.99 was/is 31700. I only had 1k of pure cash to play with so I considered trading a 2007 Mazda 3s.
Frankly I decided I wanted to keep my daily driver Mazda so I broke off talks but darn it I liked the car

Until a few days ago I knew little of rms/ims. I was considering a ppi but no I had not done one.

Questions: is it rennlist permissible to show you dealer link to car?
Nationwide I see this vintage for lots less $$ (sometimes) but this looked pretty good to this lusters eye..
Was I lucky to not have more $$ at hand , lucky I was unwilling to trade the ol mazda?

Don't beat me up too badly, I saw at shot at my old dream thaT LOOKED like it might be relatively low maint.

Nieve probably.. I used to hv a 72 spitfire that leaked brake fluid on my shoe, had carbs that stuck requiring me to jump out and unscrew and replace the float? And the ol girl lost reverse which had me fred flintstoning into parking spots backwards... And I loved it

Im now 57 no better at DIY and if im going to get this done i will need to be close to what my credit union will loan on a used vehicle.

Advice appreciated... But say it in a way I won't be ashamed to post again.. :-)

Macster

Not sure what you're after. AFAIK it is ok to post a link to a car you are interested in. Be aware that if the car is good deal you run the risk of someone beating you to the car. I can't recall this happening here but there's the possibility.

Even if you get there second do not fret. There is always another car.

You will have to find out what your CU will loan you on a used car. How much down is required. Any restrictions on how old the car can be. How many miles the car can have. That sort of thing.

Then you will have to find a good car that the CU will help you finance and that fits within your budget.

Even if you get a good car for a good price remember these cars cost a goodly amount of money new and are no cheaper to service/maintain just because they are used.

My dealer still charges me the same labor rate for my 02 Boxster as he does for owners of new cars.

You can of course use an indy and possibly save some money. But these cars are still rather costly to keep serviced, etc.

Some do what they can on their own. Basic servicing isn't too much different from other cars. Oil/filter servicing, engine air filter, cabin air filter, brake/clutch fluid flush/bleeding, brake pad/rotor renewal, and more are within the capabilities of anyone who has done these types of things before successfully on other cars and is willing to arm himself with info on how to do these right before he starts out.

Keep in mind a general rule of thumb when buying a used car is to have set aside 10% of the car's purchase price to have on hand just in case something comes up.

A PPI can find there is nothing currently wrong with the car but that does not mean something can't go wrong with the car right after you buy it. Myself with my 2 cars I have experienced over the years a failed fuel pump, water pump, coolant tank, MAF, wheel bearing, and a few other things and all came up suddenly. Everything was ok one week and not ok a week or two later. Sometimes like in the case of the fuel pump it worked fine right up until it quit at around 200K miles.

So you have to have money set aside just in case. Or if the car develops a problem then you may have to let it sit until you can have the car fixed. That's no fun.

swordsmn

Thx Macster,

Not sure what I'm asking either.
To address your points - I normally would have/will have that 10% (or more) in hiding.. Obviously I didn't now -
I do have lines on 1-2 excellent Indy's in metro ATL and friends with lifts that are sharp with other makes who I can educate on basic P-maint thru here/good you tubes.
I do realize this isn't a Camry or Accord on potential big $$ timeouts..

I guess I'm looking for a "it probably a fair price" if you just gotta hv it and you want to use/lose your daily driver as a sacrifice to buy it.

In the following rennlist thread they spied the car on it's trade in day at the dealer:

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-trade-in.html

Here is the dealer listing for the car: http://www.jimellisporsche.com/preow...91118/info.php

So is a 33500 best negotiated price "likely reasonable?"
What would scare you a bit - if anything..
I read in the above thread that these 996.2's are likely to drop in 2014. But like computers get better if you wait, that helps only as long as you WANT to wait.

I need "likely reliable" in whatever used 911 I move on... That 10% a year figure is fine or more so... I want to realize this dream sooner rather than wring my hands 6-10 more months ( ideally). I don't love the hunt so much

swordsmn

Meh, call it non-buyers remorse.. Part of me wanted to trade to obtain it, another part said they want too much, I dunno. Just wondering what you guys thought of what you see in those links... Fair. Or high, wouldn't touch without PPI, grab ur title and run back., etc?

Macster

Fair has nothing to do with the price of a car.

I'm not in the used car market so I can't offer any direct help regarding what is a good price for a car.

I use several different techniques to get a sense of the market price for cars I'm interested in. Some are a bit involved and take time.

One quick and dirty way is to check the wholesale prices of cars I'm interested in using the various online used car pricing sites. The prices are about what the seller has in the car. Dealers pay wholesale or sometimes under public wholesale prices for cars.

You can also sometimes come by publications that list wholesale prices and the info can be useful.

As a buyer of course I pick the ones that have the lowest prices. Not my job to reconcile the price differences between the sites.

The car is then worth somewhere around that price to whatever you want to pay and of course whatever the seller is willing to accept.

Used cars can have a 20% or higher markup easy. (Example: Traded in an 06 GTO for around $15K (which was the 'trade-in' value right off a used car online site). A few weeks later I found the GTO being offered on a GM used car lot listed at $19K marked down from $21K.)

But along with knowing a price you have to be sure the particular car is worth owning.

The 996 is just a used car so you want to give it a thorough used car check out and this involves a 15 mile test ride followed by a 15 mile (same route) test drive.

During the test ride/drive you want to experience the car in a variety of in use situations.

Then if you still like the car verify everything works.

Then if you still like the car and believe you can buy it for a price that is agreeable to you (and the seller) have the car PPI'd.

Used car prices are dynamic to state the obvious.

Market conditions can affect them. But dealers can play with prices too. I have followed used cars and found prices going up and down even on one particular model for no apparent reason other than the dealer wanted to change the price. I have found cars with one price on the lot, a different price listed in an online used car web site, and yet another price listed at the selling dealer's web site. And in one case when I rolled the cursor over the car a special 'net price price window popped up.

My advise is to find a good car and buy it for a good price. Then never ever look at car prices again. Well, at least not until you are ready to trade-in/sell the car or buy another one.

Macster

Oh, what scares me about any used car? The same thing: Condition.

One has to find a car that is as best he can tell in good condition.

This involves regular and proper servicing. There is a trend by some Porsche owners to skip proper oil/filter services or to use unapproved oils. I would skip these cars.

I would avoid cars that do not have a history of regular servicing.

I would avoid cars with any mods. And I would avoid cars with any real track time.

I like to try to find a one owner car owned from new by the owner who has loved the car. These are rather scarce though and they can command a premium price.

swordsmn

Understood. Despite my advanced age, the only used vehicle I've bought was the Spitfire - for about 3k. The rarified air of pcar buying is new to me. 2 days after I walked away, I guess I'm looking for assurance of what I have read elsewhere here.. "Its not the only car you"ll ever like"... I appreciate your time and sound advice.

FRUNKenstein

That's a great looking car and I love the color. For around $33,000 or less, there are lots of very nice 996's out there. If you are on a budget and want to keep your 2007 Mazda 3 as a daily driver (which I think would be very smart), drop your budget for the 996 down to about $26k or $27k and search at places in addition to the Porsche dealer. You should still be able to get into a Mk II C4S for that kind of money. I would look for one with a recent clutch change and the IMS bearing swapped out. Those seem to be the priciest jobs people on Rennlist do after buying a car. I'd value documented maintenance over low mileage: 80,000 or 90,000 miles on a 10 or 12 year old car is normal and shouldn't be a problem if it is in good shape and has been well maintained and passes a PPI. And for God's sake, don't skip the PPI!

swordsmn

Thanks guys.. All sound advice.. My gut said don't lose the Mazda but my impatience almost had me buying over my immediate head I guess. Although a lifelong fan, I had not done enough reading/researching ( not even knowing about the IMS potential etc... Heck, I should have- years ago I got my oldest a new MR2 Spyder before they started eating engines thanks to a pre-cat issue. At the time, I was a mod on a Spyder forum and we documented the heck out of the issue. As comparatively cheap as those 1ZZ engines were , it was no fun for any purchaser. With regard to this almost buy, I think I got too serious too quickly thinking oh Porsche - massive reliability etc etc... Kinda nieve of me.. From what I've read this weekend ! It feels like the 996 mk I or II is a bloody time bomb without premptive remediation (sorta like gutting the pre-cats in that 02 MR2 Spyder... ) for sure I can't afford a 33k crapshoot with big odds of eating an engine rebuild/replace this expensive.. You guys that have the dough to run those risks deserve the reward- a most sweet vehicle I've wanted for 40 darn years...

swordsmn

I mentioned my experience with Toyota's 1ZZ engine in my kid's 2002 MR2 Spyder, perhaps when I learned ol Toyota had advisory hooks into Porsche during this era, I should not have been surprised? OTOH, there are those who have NO issues. Guess which % group I always seem to fall into LOL.. I just hope I grow a (pair) (of checkbooks ) to enter this club one of these days...

FRUNKenstein

Swordsmn, the IMS bearing issue has been largely solved by now. It's only been about 4 years though since people have been swapping out the bearings routinely with clutch changes. Just look for a car that's already had that done to it. As for the other stuff that goes wrong with these cars, the scare mongers have way overblown the problems. Every car will require maintenance and repairs. These cars are nowhere near as expensive to maintain as a Ferrari or Lamborghini. They are probably right in line with most other non-exotic sports cars. If you are really worried about it, go for a 100,000+ mile Mk I that will cost you about $15,000. If all goes to hell on it, you can sell it for parts for $5,000 and your max $$ at risk is $10,000. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised though if you or your friends can do some work on it and you have a good indy mechanic for the tuff stuff. They aren't that bad to maintain - don't let the hysteria scare you away.

swordsmn

Good words KC... Thanks Love ur town btw.. Used to travel a to GM Fairfax plant.
I won't quit.. Wifey and grown kids want me to realize that 40 yr dream.

SeattleC5

The 10% is my typical rule of thumb when buying a used car. Considering the 2002 C4S i bought nearly two years ago, I factored in 20% due to the expected clutch/IMS/AOS replacement, which I am having done in two weeks to the tune of about $2,900. Have already put about $1,500 in to it for new front brakes, front differential seals, brake fluid flush, new window regulator and new seat belt tensioner. Mostly wear items with a few known weak points to be addressed. So, after 2 years with my C4S I am at about 20% of the purchase price, but not complaining at all as this is a nicely balanced car to drive in all conditions, and I expect to keep it long term.

swordsmn

Thx Seattle, I agree.. Just the price of admission.. Too bad I don't have a cousin named Magnus.. :-)

M3BimmerBilly

NO NO NO NO NO