RallyJon

I have Bridgestone LM-25 V-rated winter tires on the C4S. V-rated is as high as you can go for winter tires, so presumably these are pretty close to the top end of winter tire performance.

But they handle like crap! Much lower limits on dry roads, even at the low temperatures they're supposedly optimized for. I understand there will be some more squirm from the open tread pattern required for snow, but why should they stick SO much less?

Put another way, is there a winter tire that would turn the same lap time on a dry, 0°F track that a PS-2 would on an 80°F track?

aj986s

AFAIK, good "true" winter tires use a different tread compound that stays more pliable at lower temps. Performance summer tires get "hard" at low temps, and lose alot of their grip. Winter tire compounds are also not known for their longevity. I've used Vrederstein winter snow tires, and if left on the car will not last much past 10K miles, versus 30K plus on other tires. I suspect the winter tire compounds may simply be too soft to work well at higher temps. "All Season" tires have some sort of compromise built it, so as to work reasonably well year round.

bkjwhipple

much taller tread, which means much more flex, coupled with a softer greasier rubber.... ?

beentherebaby

Not all snow tires handle badly though as mentioned above there are a variety of reasons why most don't handle as well as people with sportscars would desire. To be effective the tire tread needs to stay on the pavement and thus snow tires tend to have higher profile sidewalls with more flex than performance Summer tires.

Having driven on quite a few snow tires, Blizzacks IME have the most wander/squirm/instability of all the snow tires I've tested. These are some of the trade-offs that result from increased ice traction where Blizzaks tend to excel slightly compared to other brands. The soft compound and many sipes reduce dry traction in many cases.

I can say from personal experience that the Dunlop 3D WinterSport tires have far better handling than any other snow tire I have ever driven on. Other enthusiasts who have tested these seem to concur the the snow/ice traction is excellent as well as handling - unlike most snow tires.

The improved handling may be the result of the fact these tires are manufactured in Germany and intended for A-Bahn use? In my experience the WinterSport 3D handling improvement over other snow tires is dramatic without any compromise in snow/ice performance.

YMMV

ivangene

are they brand new, maybe its just mold release? I thought the LM25's handled very well on my C2


very very well !!

BuddyK

Pirelli Snowsports N rated are fairly good on dry when it's cold. I'd say there is some "squirm" for sure on dry pavement when it's warmer, but I really like em. On my second set of them. They wear out pretty fast - especially from fall and spring on dry pavement.

wwest

"..is there.."

No.

And for very good reason.

Winter specialty tires have less roadbed contact, CSA, to grip the surface.

That's why summer tires are so much better on hard pack snow or ice.

If there's no "roughage", looseness to the roadbed surface, for those winter tire treads to "grip" then they will be of little or no help.

My '01 F/awd RX300 has run on nice and quiet, comfortably riding, summer tires for 80,000 miles now, winter and summer. Tire chains ALWAYS on board for times of need, two sets during the winter period..

Bob Rouleau

There are trade offs. For best performance on ice you get a soft and squirmy tread compound. There is a lot of variation between brands and models. My favorite all round winter tire (and we get a lot of snow here) is the Nokian. It is more biased towards snow-ice than some but superior to the Blizzaks in my experience. Pirelli Winter Sport is another good tire for handling in the cold and dry but gives up some grip on ice.

Your LM 25s will get better after the tread wears down a bit.

seanmcr6

Really? Mine rock!

Pirelli wintersports on my C4S and they've been great!

You should get your alignment done for winter tires...take some camber out (especially out of the rear)

Changes they way they handle in the dry a LOT.

sean

Dennis C

I have LM-25s on my C4S, and while it's not the same as the summer rubber, it's not awful. Very acceptable for cold weather conditions.

Don't forget you're dropping down from a 10x18 wheel with a 295 tire width in the rear to a 9x18 with a 265 tire with - that has an impact too.

Bob Rouleau

We must not have the same summer tires. My 4S on PS2 cannot climb a very mild slope on ice.

Accroding a seminar I went to, engineers have discovered the best friction on snow is .. snow. That's why modern winter tires have tread patterns similar to summer tires. Mud tires have an open, blocky tread similar to "snow" tires of old.
On ice a lot of tiny and very soft sipes work best according to the Michelin guys. Summer tires freeze at around 40 degrees and are too hard to conform to the surface.

tooloud10

The short answer is "no".

+1 on all of this

Uh, no. One would think that you have no experience with winter tires if you're making that statement.

fly4beer

W rated michelin pilot alpin 3, pa3 the winter ps2 ;-)
nice handling on dry, good traction on snow, good speed rating for the trips on neighbor's Autobahn.
Swiss Alps tested by yours truly.

abiazis

Have not tried Michelin Alpin, but I have had Pirelli, Bridgestone and Dunlop wintersport tires and the Dunlop tire outperformed the others in all aspects of winter driving.....Had these tires on E39 2000 M5 and also 2003 C4s..........there is a drop off from high performance sport tires as expected...

CT944

Agreed, mine too!