doublecabmel

Looks like these are up another 10% over last year! No SPORT seats, ugly tan interior, and it looks like dark blue exterior. Flame suit on, let's hear why these aren't worth the $, blah, blah, blah. And yes, I'm biased

Al Pettee

Giggle price.

Johnny_law

Well if you wanted 184 of them you would have to pay a whole lot more...

1997 turbo s

A lot of cars are barely hitting low estimates. Long hoods and 80s turbo aren't getting top dollars but the price on this turbo S shows rarity is the name of the game.

Skwerl

Yeah, I have an auction watch thread going on the Pelican market discussion forum. The vast majority of cars at the auctions this week (Porsches especially, but all marques, really) are falling short of estimates or not selling unless they're truly exceptional. This particular 993TTS would certainly be hard for a collector to improve on, with its one-owner status and beautiful color scheme.

At the same time, it's hard to see $484k for a car that would have been what, $120k three or four years ago and not wonder about that "bubble" you keep hearing about.

1997 turbo s

The low prices on some turbos and long hoods are truely surprising. I think the correction that everyone has been talking about is here. I wonder if it's just the beginning...

pirahna

Is it missing the original hypersilver turboS wheels? Those look like regular finish wheels.

nathan1

I personally inspected this car at great length yesterday. It certainly presents as a nice and mostly correct example. Its not a top of world example but certainly a top couple %. Nits were complete front end respray as verified by paint meter (hood, fenders, front bumper) and wrong non "S" wheels. The car had what looked like Bilstein PSS10 on it as well as a Engine Pad Keeper by David Etter to fix the sagging sound pad. I won't comment on price as the price reflects what one buyer in the market felt it was worth to them.

Skwerl

Good report, thanks. Can you comment on what the general atmosphere was like - e.g., could you tell if bidders were being more cautious or picky? Was there a lot of excitement and energy in the air or were people reserved? Just trying to gauge whether there was an overall mood that might reveal anything about the results here or at the other Arizona auctions.

NYC123

lot of air came out of the porsche market in AZ. the question is do the dealers at some point actually come back to reality with their asking prices or not. when a nice 20k mile 89 speedster hammers at 128k do the 250k+ asking prices come down or not ? similar things for the 80's turbos. my guess is dealers just continue to sit on inventory with the inflated asking prices as has been going on for a while now.

nathan1

My overall assessment is that auction estimates were high, average quality was LOW and therefore prices fail to hit the over-inflated estimates. Then people who didn't see the cars in person do a quick perusal of the spread between estimate and hammer and assume the market is dropping.

My overall assessment is that 3+ years into the 911 boom means that the auctions are scraping the bottom for quality consignments and the standards have slipped. The number of truly top tier 911's being sold here in Scottsdale this week was a VERY short list.

Most of the cars sold for MARKET CORRECT money as it relates to their overall quality. I do think the market is cooling and only the truly top tier cars will command top dollar and the nice to sub-par cars are going to sit unsold or will have to do a price adjust.

NYC123

I very much agree with all of this. However for cars that are not so rare and where condition was totally fine like the 89 speedster I mentioned which hammered at 138k , how much longer will sellers keep them on eBay and dealers for 240k ? they been siting for well over a year already almost at these prices not selling. at some point these dealers are just turning into "collectors" if the prices are priced so far away from the market so consistently. in terms of the rare special stuff I agree the quality of the cars at auction has been bad for 2 years and got even worse in AZ and yes top tier cars will always command higher prices. but these top tier cars are the top 1% for the other 99% market has been and will continues to soften and be hard to move without price adjustments.
I am a huge believer that it always pays to pay up for the best qality no stories cars however even in that case the premium paid for quality still has to have some relationship with he rest of the market.

nathan1

I agree with everything except your comments on the 89 Speedster. It was nowhere near an excellent example, hence the low price. I am happy to PM more details and photos but don't want to publicly denigrate the car. The buyer paid a fair price for a driver, he didn't get a collectible quality car. Fairly bought and sold, not indicative of pricing on excellent one.

NYC123

correct its a driver quality car but so are 90% of the cars out there for sale at 225- 250. you know its funny on the way up when 1 car sells at auction at a high price nobody questions it. nobody says well he was wasted drunk, he was a 12 yr old kid who won the lotto and had no idea what he was doing, etc etc. nobody questions anything everybody that owns the same car just raises their prices accordingly the next day. Ferrari superamerica just goes from 300 to 550 overnight no questions asked. but on the way down every car that sells at a low price there is ALWAYS an excuse, it was B quality car etc etc. I am not disputing you on this particular speedster but funny how on the way down rather than just lower prices post low auction sales there is just always an excuse

Skwerl

I've noticed the exact same thing, NYC123. It would be interesting for people at the auctions to post their predictions after their personal inspections so it would sound less like post hoc rationalization.

I'm wondering, are the auction house appraisers completely ignorant of the savviness of their buyers and the conditions of the cars? They can't be so incompetent as to think that a sloppy B-grade driver's car is going to fool everyone and sell for A+ money, and missing estimates so frequently and severely doesn't make them look good.

Edit:: More to your point, this 97 TT with 30k miles appears to be pretty unremarkable except for the unique color and it just hammered at $220k.

http://www.goodingco.com/vehicle/199...che-993-turbo/

You list any other 30k-mile TT out there at $220k (more with fees) and it will sit forever.