Trey03

Fellow Rennlisters

I have read through a lot of old threads but given this forum isn't as active as it once was I thought I would pose my question to see if there are different opinions currently...

I have owned some version of a 993 for 15 years, with the 993tt being the one I always wanted. About 2 years ago I finally managed to pick up a polar silver 993tt with 32k miles. The car is very clean and stock, with the exception of a turbo S wing (i do have the original) and euro springs. The shocks aren't dead but with the car being lowered they don't dampen very well.

I also have a 996 gt3 and a 991 gt3rs. Having lusted after a 993tt for years, I now find it's the car I drive the least. I still find it to be the best looking car in the garage but I'd rather drive the 996 gt3 in all case, track and street. That car just feels more nimble and more connected to the road. I can't bring myself to get rid of the 993tt for fear of regret. However, the car just lacks a connection when I drive it. I'm sure it's a combination of AWD, turbo and aging suspension.

What are the best upgrades to get the 993tt to feel more raw? I don't mind adding NVH. I've wondered about sway bars, new shocks and tranny/motor mounts.

Thanks in advance,
Trey

bbs993tt

That's an interesting perspective you're coming from as I've always thought in general in the 911's case that the older it is, the more raw. I suspect in your case it's because your other two are gt cars. One of the first things I did with mine and would suggest for you is to modify the exhaust. As you know, turbos are quiet to begin with and the stock one doesn't reflect the car's ferocity. I went with Fabspeed muffler bypass pipes and couldn't be happier because it adds a whole new dimension to the driving experience that IMO completely isn't there in stock form. It's an easy DIY, inexpensive, reversible back to stock and a game changer. Just my $0.02.

LexVan

You could convert to 2-wheel drive?

Get PSS10 or similar.
Get Golden Rod from FD Motorsports.
Get SSK from FD Motorsports.
Maybe do a LWFW.

racer959

If your ever in the New Jersey area let me know, I'll take your for a ride in my 993 turbo. You will be very surprised how they run with some mods.

sfbanchs

Yes i agree it is refined stock leaves a lot to be desired. I suggest the lwfw, and adding a stage 2 kit from umw. Also fister, robin sun or fabspeed exhaust pss9 and the ride is definetely transformed. it will never be as raw as a 930 or a gt car but really what kind of modern twin turbo is?? the six speed is like butter, steering is smooth clutch easy to depress but i prefer those creature comforts along with the old school smells and feels of an air cooled turbo, the clank of the door, small cockpit old school vmo guages, its everything you need nothing you don't, enough rambling for me i have had mine for 14 years and love it the same as when i bought it. one thing i also appreciate which was lost after the 993 is seeing the motor turning when idling, remember all that next time you decide which keys to reach for,

Mike J

Hmm interesting question. Comparing modern GT and GT RS cars to the 25 year old air cooled car? :-)

Your statement "That car just feels more nimble and more connected to the road." is a key one - if you are running stock shocks and euro springs, the suspension is definitely a good candidate. I run KW V3's, others run PSS-10'a or even Ohlins, and that really transforms the car.

Just about all the suggestions of things to do on a NA 993 transfer to the 993TT, but the TT has a challenge in that it has a bit extra weight to deal with, which can make the car less nimble. On the positive side, you did not seem to mention power, which is good on the TT.

On the suspension, there are plenty of other standard 993 mods you can put in to help the nimbleness, including bushing upgrades (especially the front A arms), RS uprights, RS or better suspension arms, etc. Lots of threads on this stuff.

The AWD can make the car feel heavy and less nimble, and the cars you are comparing the TT are 2WD, so that conversion may make sense to you, it lightens the feel of the front end and makes the car more reactive.

Changing the exhaust certainly adds to the noise experience on the car. I did not like any of the off-the-shelf systems, so I built my own - one of the tricks for getting a good sound on a TT is to mix the exhausts from both sides together, the stock system essentially is two separate three cylinder cars, each having a separate tailpipe - the sound of a stock system is underwhelming.

Seats and steering wheel upgrades can change the feel of the car as well - especially a more connected seat.

BUT to be honest, you are not going to get a 25 year old 993TT to match the feel of a 991 GT3 RS, but you can get it to be just as brilliant but different. Ask Basal Skull on this list, he tracks his 993TT with many GT cars, does well, but it required a fair amount of mods.

Cheers,

Mike

Trey03

Thank you for the all of the quick replies!

I didn’t mean to make it sound like I don’t appreciate the car. There is so much to love about the car. When it is parked in the garage next to the 991gt3rs you realize just how disappointingly big newer cars have gotten. I love the single purpose design of the 993 interior, which also comes with a fantastic smell.

@bbs993tt I completely agree that they sound similar to a vacuum in stock form. I will probably make a change to the exhaust but I am interested in making the car feel more responsive. I have had bypass pipes on previous cars and agree they are cheap, easy and fun. BTW, I am completely jealous of your Carrera GT, love the color.

@sfbanchs you’re right about being able to see the motor work. In the 991 gt3rs you can’t even see the motor which sucks.

@mike j I am not trying to make it match the 991 gt3rs in feel. Too be honest, in many ways I find the 991 gt3rs ‘too good’ I liken it to when drivers changed from actual wood to metal. Yes the ball goes farther and it is more forgiving to hit. However, when you hit the sweet spot it’s never as sweet. That is why I love the 996 gt3. You still have to work to make it go fast and it tells you when you made a mistake. I really just want to get SOME of that feel in the 993tt. I do have a spare set of 996 clubsport seats sitting around. I could easily throw those in the car with the brey-krause adapter. Putting those in my 996 gt3 did improve the feel of the car considerably over the sport seats. You’re right I don’t care about more power. I would like the power to be a bit more immediate, but that isn’t my main desire. I just have had to get on the gas sooner in turns to get power when I want it.

Everyone has recommended shocks. That seems like a good place to start and maybe do some suspension bits while I’m in there.

One thing no one commented on is alignment. The car has a lot of understeer currently. I assume I can dial some of that out with a more aggressive alignment. The stock alignment on the 996 gt3 had a ton of understeer which changed dramatically after a proper track alignment. The 993tt won’t see track duty, but an aggressive alignment might make it feel better to me. Thoughts?

LexVan

What tires?
How old??
Pressures???

Knight

As you mentioned the shocks are dead or if they weren't your seriously running some 20+ year old Monroes! To this day I'm still shocked they put that in a 911 of this price point for the US market.

Suspension suggestions above and correct a good alignment is a key starting point. Likely an honest shop will tell you if any other susp bits need to be replaced too. Keep in mind the 993TT factory suspension (rear susp arms, front tie rods etc) has lots of rubber components like the bushings vs 6GT3 I'm assuming may be the opposite. And the GT cars have no sound deadening, that alone provides so much more sensation to the driving experience.

I'd take it step by step so you can notice the changes for each item. The amount of upgrades you can do on the 993 can seem endless to be honest.

Look at the phase 2 build alone on the suspension in the NA forum:

https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...t-porsche.html

Good luck, I will say for sure you can get it to feel way more connected. I've done a decent amount of upgrades to mind over the past 8 years of ownership as well to accomplish that same goal. Each one gradually making it a bit better.

Trey03

@LexVan My tires are 1.5 year old Bridgestone re-71r and the pressures are 32F and 35R. Bear in mind I only drive the car on the street so the tires are never really up to proper temps.

Cemoto

Firstly Trey, congrats on being a Rennlister for 16 years!

All the suggestions here are good, including doing one at a time to see if that works for you. As Knight mentioned the GT cars have no sound deadening so they provide a more raw experience that the 993tt or NA ever will unless you strip them out, which I wouldn't suggest. The previous owner of my car lowered it and did the Fabspeed muffler bypass which deletes the mufflers and provides a much better sound with out being obnoxious (also removes 30lbs?). It does sound a little like a motorboat when cold but you get used to that quickly.

So, I'd suggest the Fabspeed bypass pipes first as they are relatively inexpensive. See if that helps with the experience.

Then alignment. You might find that change to be satisfying enough UNTIL you do the suspension, lowering and refreshing the bushings. After the suspension (unless you are having issues now) do the FD short shift and Golden Rod - worth every penny and the best kit/package out there. It is possible your motor mounts are compromised as they age the same as suspension bushings.

Lastly, the cats. Because most people never get the chance to wring out the motor the cats tend to clog. Just revving the motor in lower gears does not equate to burning/cleaning out the cats enough. You need triple digit speed for a long distance to create enough aerodynamic drag for the motor to really work, which in turn heats up and cleans out the cats. If you've ever had the chance to do this, even in a car that seemed to run well, you will find that when the exhaust gets cleaned out it creates an awful smell. Where I'm going with this is to suggest sport cats.

Unless you need to sell, keep the car. Although mine does not see as many miles per year as it once did - it truly is an experience we are fortunate to have, enjoy!

Regards,

.

chsu74

This. I would only do reversible mods and try to lighten the car. Replace bushings etc. Sport Cats and muffler bypass or Fister muffler are great options.

Stay away from tune and engine work so you can go back to OEM.

bbs993tt

Trey, I understand and didn't explain my point very well. The bypass pipes won't make the car any more responsive. For me, the sounds the car makes are such an important part of the driving experience so what it does, IMO, is improve the overall driving experience. It really does alter this particular car's personality from Dr. Jekyll to Mr. Hyde. And thanks for the carrera gt compliment - it's a beast.

Trey03

@bbs993tt I totally get your point. I am sure it changes the personality of the car significantly. I wonder if I can remove the mufflers without removing the rear bumper.

@chsu74 100% agree about only doing reversible mods.

@Cemoto I don't see myself selling the car. Sometimes I get excited about something different but ultimately I always decide to add to the collection rather than trade.

What alignment specs do folk recommend? I don't care about tire wear, my priority is to get the car neutral with better turn in.

LexVan

You can. Before you put the Fabspeed bypass pipes on, maybe have them ceramic coated in satin black: