Jean

Stefano, can you post the papers where it says that your car has an RS engine? Better still, can you post a picture of the engine number (it comes next to the fan housing in case you are not familiar with the location)
Thanks.

TB993tt

The thread which Tom reffered to appears to have the answer to this.

It mentions Marc Bongers book - on page 178 it lists the MY '98 turbo coupe with performance kit engine type M 64/60 RS.

This is not the turbo S coupe MY '98 which is also listed with engine type
M 64/60 S

Or the turbo coupe with performance kit MY '96-98 with 430PS and engine type M 64/60 R

So there you have it, The car is a bog standard NON S Turbo coupe MY '98 with the 450PS engine (designated on that car as M64/60RS) . Bongers's book lists the cost of the option as 29800DM

TB993tt

Just to elaborate a little further, from MY'96 to MY '98 the performance kit with engine type M64/60R was available as an option on a standard turbo, this was the 430PS/540NM kit and cost 12500DM on a new car, 13150DM as a conversion and 11900DM as a supply kit only.

In 1998, Werks 1 Exclusive dept made available the new performance kit 450PS/585NM (the dept also built 345 examples of the Euro Turbo S with the 450PS engine) - This kit was available as a retrofit for 29800DM engine type M64/60RS - this sounds like what was fitted to Stefano's car.

Also for the MY '98, the GT2s (21 in total) were fitted with the same engine, but in these cars it was stamped as M64/60 S

Sbrillanti

Excuse me, Jean and Tom:

Please focus on the topic. If I am right, we are not speaking of my car, but the subject is the engine. If I am Italian or not does not change the fact that nobody (Tom and Jean included) seems able to answer this simple question:

What engine the M64/60RS is?

Before alluding of a possible commercial use of this thread, please answer the question. If you are not able to answer, please give some help or be quite.

Regards

Sbrillanti

TB993TT:

Great! It seems to me you have scored the goal!
Your explanation is very sensate. Please follow-through:

Do you have any additional technical info about this engine, apart from the 450 HP?
Can we assume that it sums the characteristics of the 993 GT2 and 993 Turbo S engines?

Regards

TB993tt

It is exactly the same engine as the 993tt S (Euro) and the MY '98 GT2 (mentioned above) this configuration is quite well known, it is 2 X K24 turbochargers, modified ECU program and oil cooler there is a power/torque diagram on here (Rennlist) somewhere. The ECU mapping (by Porsche) is quite conservative (to be expected) and these turbos are good for around 470 hp or up to 490 with new cams.

The only road test I saw of a 993tt with this engine was actually quite dissapointing with the 100-200kph taking a similar time to the 430PS package - the K24s lost the response of the quicker spooling K16s but, due to the conservative Porsche programming, did not really deliver the expected rush once on boost.

Jean

Give some help or be quiet?
What do you think we have been doing since you asked your question? Tom apologized in advance and it was nothing personal.
People are clearly trying to make a buck or two out of the exclusivity of this car, there is nothing wrong about it but don't be surprised if someone calls you out because you are the third Italian with zero posts asking the same question, and it has nothing to do with being Italian as such!

Just thank everyone and go enjoy the car rather.

Sbrillanti

Jean:

Nothing personal from me too. The reason why someone subscribes a forum and starts posting is often his/her personal interest for something new.
The sometimes annoying thing is that if the questions seems a little "strange" one of the first thing most think is that: commercial use of the forum to attract some buyers to an "alterated" Porsche car.

Is it even well spotted?

BTW, we now know, you included, that a M64/60Rs engine was produced in 1998, with double exaust pipes, with 450 HP, different from the enpowered "normal" M64/60 turbo engine, equally with 450 HP.

Of course I thank everyone that answered my question, but I felt myself a little frustrated when receiving some "well spotted" appreciations.
BTW, the car and the engine in the thread by the other Italian guys had nothing to do with my car.

Best wishes

TB993tt

Not sure you quite got it here (although it may be in the language) ?

The "normal" 450hp engine was in fact the M64/60RS which was the code used when this engine, available in '98 was fitted to a non turbo S or GT2 car which both had their own type numbers.

The M64/60RS kit is available from Gert at Carnewal for considerably cheaper than back in '98:

450 HP Kit For P93 Turbo Cars
This kit is the factory retrofit kit for all P93 Turbo
Increases from standard to 450 HP.
The 450HP ECU replaces the standard ECU, no programming needed.
Price : 5.995 Euro Shipping included. Dollar Conversion
Included in the kit :
Turbo "S" Auxiliary Oil Cooler kit (see picture)
GT2 Turbo's
ECU
Twin exhaust tips
Installation hardware

Sbrillanti

TB993TT:

Congratulations! It seems to me you are very well informed.
Anyway, please follow me and correct what is wrong in my thought:

A 1996 Turbo sports the M64/60 engine (408 HP)
A 1997 Turbo GT2 sports the M64/60R engine (430 -450 HP)
A 1998 Turbo S sports the M64/60S engine (450 HP)

You can easily upgrade a normal M64/60 engine to 430-450 HP with modification in the ECU only. Additional options (oil cooler, exausts) do not matter. This is what any kit does. I have seen a few M64/60 enpowered engine (450 hp) without the RS stamp.
I do not think that changes in the original /60R and /60R engines were limited to the ECU, in comparison to basic /60. Additional performance changes were probably made (valves, cams, please help...).
For this reason, I am not sure that an ECU modified /60 (450 HP) is identical to a /60RS (450 HP). More additional changes were probably done.

I much appreciate your contribution.

Wishes

TB993tt

Yes, this is the information I have, mainly from the Bonger's book.You are talking non Porsche factory kits. You have also hit another point here. You mention 450hp and say exhausts do not matter, well not strictly true. To go above the 430/440 mark does require exhaust modifications, at least to the turbo exhaust side and for the best torque curve, to the cats and mufflers also. Yes people claim all sorts of numbers for stock K16s - but that is another story .I would guess that one only gets the engine stamp if the engine comes in the 450PS guise from the factory as a complete engine, I can't imagine any Porsche dealer adding an "RS" to a stock engine which has the 450PS kit fittedIt would be great if there were some secret "tricks" done to these engines, but I'm afraid that the 450PS engines (whether "R" "S" or "RS") will just have the turbos, ECU and oil cooler - these were the bits which Porsche developed and there is no way the factory would "slip in" some cams or special cats, they just don't work like that.
As I said before, this kit is a good basis for adding cams, cats and mufflers and with new ECU program getting a nice torquey 490PS - but not from the factory

TomF

Sbrillanti,

Since the car is clearly pictured on a showroom floor, I expected that this thread was another shameless attempt to sell a car. As was the earlier thread link posted by Jean. You should become a Rennlist member, since you are clearly passionate about 993s. It is worth the minor cost.

Are you a dealer?

I stand corrected on the M64/60RS engine designation. You are absolutely correct that none of us can know all the "special" models for a designated country or market. The information posted here is very insightful and I have enjoyed learning about these different models.

Thanks TB993tt for your insights. I have Bonger's book on my list of ones to pick up soon.

Sbrillanti

Tom:

Nice to hear from you again. The car shown in photos is mine. These pictures are from the showroom of the dealer where I purchased the Turbo.

I am not a car dealer. I am a Gastroenterologist, Associate Professor of Medicine at the University of Bologna.

Regards,

Stefano

Woodster

Holy ****!

Just kidding,
the first thing I thought when I saw your car is what someone else
thought...I want that car!! I still do, congrats on a great great car.

Marty K.

Rassel

Sorry, but nope. They look just the same. Only way to determine the 450 is by either looking at the hardware differences or in the option codes for XLC. Also, if the upgrade was done at Porsche, they should be able to check it.

Stefano,
I suggest you take your VIN to a Porsche dealer and pull all the history from the car.
Btw, the 450hp version with K24 Turbos do really benefit from the muffler bypasses.


Oh, before I forget. Stunning car and welcome to Rennlist. If you're not too busy, please share more pictures and details about the car!