Loose front end
10-03-2016, 08:04 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Loose front end
Here's the situation. My 993 handles well, but when driving straight down the road at highway speeds it starts to feel a little loose. I'd equate the feeling to being buffetted by crosswinds, the nose just wants to wander a little. I hardly have to move the wheel to keep going in a straight line, but there's the feeling of nervousness up front. Car has 126k miles.
What I've done:
- Control arm bushings replaced with Elephant Sport.
- Outer tie-rods replaced with stock and inner with Tarret solid. Verified steering rack is not leaking.
- 4 wheel alignment, including KT by a guy with the tool and claims lots of experience.
- New tires, Pilot A/S 3+ in stock 18" sizes.
I've checked rear bushings and they all seem ok, maybe a little soft but nothing terrible. Front control arm ball joints seemed OK to me when I looked at them. Boots were intact and the joint seemed solid and without play when I rotated it by hand.
I noticed the front drop links are a little soft, but haven't replaced these yet. Don't think they could cause these symptoms, right?
I ordered new steering rack bushings, thinking that maybe a little play in the rack mounts could cause the problem, but haven't gotten the parts yet to install.
Is there anything I'm missing? What else should I check or replace to get a super-solid front end?
What I've done:
- Control arm bushings replaced with Elephant Sport.
- Outer tie-rods replaced with stock and inner with Tarret solid. Verified steering rack is not leaking.
- 4 wheel alignment, including KT by a guy with the tool and claims lots of experience.
- New tires, Pilot A/S 3+ in stock 18" sizes.
I've checked rear bushings and they all seem ok, maybe a little soft but nothing terrible. Front control arm ball joints seemed OK to me when I looked at them. Boots were intact and the joint seemed solid and without play when I rotated it by hand.
I noticed the front drop links are a little soft, but haven't replaced these yet. Don't think they could cause these symptoms, right?
I ordered new steering rack bushings, thinking that maybe a little play in the rack mounts could cause the problem, but haven't gotten the parts yet to install.
Is there anything I'm missing? What else should I check or replace to get a super-solid front end?
10-03-2016, 09:04 PM
#3
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Sorry I should have mentioned that. Yes I've been testing various tire pressures with 36/40 and 34/38 feeling best. I'm settling on 34/38 as the car feels a bit more planted and less harsh than at the higher pressure.
10-03-2016, 10:08 PM
#5
Drifting
Check the rear subframe mounts too. Mine were in poor shape, although inclined to think maybe more common on TT's.
Outside of that it seems like you've checked everything. Although keep in mind a little play in those rear bushings and ball joints could be the culprit.
Outside of that it seems like you've checked everything. Although keep in mind a little play in those rear bushings and ball joints could be the culprit.
10-03-2016, 10:15 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
It's amazing how much the rear end can drive the front. But I would agree with IainM that if your shocks are original then that is likely the problem. As mentioned by others, you've done pretty much everything else.
10-03-2016, 10:17 PM
#7
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
@IanM Interesting comment on the shocks. Shocks are bilstein HD with about 75k miles on them. Should be still ok, right?
@Knight I visually inspected the subframe mounts and they looked reasonable to me, but didn't test them in any way. The trailing arm bushings are all slightly cracked and worn looking and I can feel very slight movement when someone manipulates the wheel. Do you think that would be enough to cause what I'm feeling?
Anyone know a good way to test the subframe bushings?
I'm considering changing the front control arm ball joint, just to be sure I've covered everything. Is there a good way to test this and rule it out or should I just replace it to be sure?
@Knight I visually inspected the subframe mounts and they looked reasonable to me, but didn't test them in any way. The trailing arm bushings are all slightly cracked and worn looking and I can feel very slight movement when someone manipulates the wheel. Do you think that would be enough to cause what I'm feeling?
Anyone know a good way to test the subframe bushings?
I'm considering changing the front control arm ball joint, just to be sure I've covered everything. Is there a good way to test this and rule it out or should I just replace it to be sure?
Trending Topics
10-03-2016, 10:19 PM
#8
if your car is a 95 or 96 you may want to do this.
http://www.pcarworkshop.com/images/5...996_640496.pdf
http://www.pcarworkshop.com/images/5...996_640496.pdf
10-03-2016, 10:20 PM
#9
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Car is a 97 and I confirmed it has the rack brace installed last time I was under the car. 18" wheels are in the option codes for this car, so I ruled that out as a potential issue. Good thinking though.
10-03-2016, 11:00 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
Do you have any service records documenting a front ball joint change? If not I would replace them as a timeout/wear item anyway.
Unless the car has seen significant track use and/or very rough urban roads your shocks should be fine (assume you have inspected them for leaks).
Unless the car has seen significant track use and/or very rough urban roads your shocks should be fine (assume you have inspected them for leaks).
10-03-2016, 11:02 PM
#11
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
No, I think they are original. I'll order those, might as well make sure all the parts are fresh up front.
Shocks visually inspect ok, no leaks and they look shiny and good.
Shocks visually inspect ok, no leaks and they look shiny and good.
10-03-2016, 11:12 PM
#13
Drifting
When you say rear trail arm bushing, your referring to the lower A arms? I've been told those along with the subframe mounts can make an impact. I've tested some with MikeJ but it's helpful to have another car to reference.
On a lift, you basically need like a pry bar to see if you can get movement in them - technically it should be very minimal. In our small sample, we noticed the TT's had more wear on the subframes, although yours at 126K miles they have to be far from optimal IMO.
My car experienced the same issues at high speeds at like 180km/hr and higher - floating front end. And during corners my rear end was not confident inspiring, felt the opposite of planted. I ended up doing a major overhaul (front tie rods, all new rear arms + elephant racing subframe mounts) so unfortunately I cannot narrow it down to which components.
If your on a budget I'd start with the cracked a-arms, downside each time you change you need a new alignment.
And yes what Matt said it could be your alignment too!
On a lift, you basically need like a pry bar to see if you can get movement in them - technically it should be very minimal. In our small sample, we noticed the TT's had more wear on the subframes, although yours at 126K miles they have to be far from optimal IMO.
My car experienced the same issues at high speeds at like 180km/hr and higher - floating front end. And during corners my rear end was not confident inspiring, felt the opposite of planted. I ended up doing a major overhaul (front tie rods, all new rear arms + elephant racing subframe mounts) so unfortunately I cannot narrow it down to which components.
If your on a budget I'd start with the cracked a-arms, downside each time you change you need a new alignment.
And yes what Matt said it could be your alignment too!
10-03-2016, 11:30 PM
#15
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^^^^^^ this, and most have touched on it. The rear needs to be just as "tight" as the front, for proper geometry/function. If KT is not correct (and equal) it can be pretty chaotic. Lastly, is this on all roads? Good tracking, on concrete (groved) roads, may cause it to follow the groves. Just a thought. Good luck.