I must be crazy...putting my 993 up for sale
#61
PO of my car did sai clean out at 50k miles and was back with the same cel a year later. The shop was recommending top end, which the PO was strongly against and insisted on another flush done properly. So the shop did another clean out. 8 years later and almost 50k miles with no sai issues. I'm closing on 99k miles with little oil consumption.
#62
Drifting
#63
Race Director
Yep, long time Porsche owner but definitely a 993 newbie here just passing on information that I've been told by countless mechanics and owners in my casual 10 year hunt for a 993. I guess Your saying they're all completely and utterly wrong. Ok, random internet guy - I'll listen to you instead.
The context of the OP was to recommend to the individual who was considering buying a 993 what to budget for. The advice was a worst case scenario - as I understand it, probably no sooner than 50,000 miles but probably before 120,000 miles many 993 owners will be faced with top end issues. Are you saying the 50,000 to 120,000 mile number is way off base for top end work? Of course it varies but I'd think it would be pretty lousy advice to tell a prospective buyer that they should plan on getting at least 300,000 miles before any expensive top end work needs to be done. You obviously have more 993 experience than I do, so what major mechanical budget advice would you give prospective 993 buyers?
As for SAI issues, which I'd think We both agree are very common in these cars. It can be dealt with in a number of ways. Outside the state of CA or if you have a pre OBD-II car you might just be able to ignore it. In other cases you might have to deal with it.
Fortunately SAI has multiple correction methods, the worst case requiring pulling the engine which is what I'd personally budget for if buying a higher mileage 993k (you may choose differently) or like another poster in this thread you may be well equipped to do the work yourself up to and including pulling the engine. Regardless, every shop I talked to about the wire ream and blow method said they could do it but they wouldn't guarantee it would solve the issue or that it would not resurface in short period. Likewise, every shop I talked to said if they pulled the heads they would guarantee its fixed right along with whatever might be causing it and that it shouldn't resurface for a long time if at all (obviously how you drive and maintain the car has a lot to do with it). In spite of your colorful imagination, never did I say an SAI issue was a death sentence to the heads. So again, what budget advice do you recommend for the potential new buyer that might be faced with an SAI issue?
Lastly, if you personally were buying another 993 and you found two virtually identical cars each with about 100,000 miles but one with a recent reputable shop top end rebuild and the other with the check engine light on and known SAI issue. Would you offer the exact same amount of money to each seller or would you expect the SAI car price to be lowered a bit to compensate for the cost you're going to have to put in it? And if you want the SAI car at a reduced cost would you start your negioations at $1500 off for a wire ream and blow job or would you start at $8000 off for a potential top end job?
The context of the OP was to recommend to the individual who was considering buying a 993 what to budget for. The advice was a worst case scenario - as I understand it, probably no sooner than 50,000 miles but probably before 120,000 miles many 993 owners will be faced with top end issues. Are you saying the 50,000 to 120,000 mile number is way off base for top end work? Of course it varies but I'd think it would be pretty lousy advice to tell a prospective buyer that they should plan on getting at least 300,000 miles before any expensive top end work needs to be done. You obviously have more 993 experience than I do, so what major mechanical budget advice would you give prospective 993 buyers?
As for SAI issues, which I'd think We both agree are very common in these cars. It can be dealt with in a number of ways. Outside the state of CA or if you have a pre OBD-II car you might just be able to ignore it. In other cases you might have to deal with it.
Fortunately SAI has multiple correction methods, the worst case requiring pulling the engine which is what I'd personally budget for if buying a higher mileage 993k (you may choose differently) or like another poster in this thread you may be well equipped to do the work yourself up to and including pulling the engine. Regardless, every shop I talked to about the wire ream and blow method said they could do it but they wouldn't guarantee it would solve the issue or that it would not resurface in short period. Likewise, every shop I talked to said if they pulled the heads they would guarantee its fixed right along with whatever might be causing it and that it shouldn't resurface for a long time if at all (obviously how you drive and maintain the car has a lot to do with it). In spite of your colorful imagination, never did I say an SAI issue was a death sentence to the heads. So again, what budget advice do you recommend for the potential new buyer that might be faced with an SAI issue?
Lastly, if you personally were buying another 993 and you found two virtually identical cars each with about 100,000 miles but one with a recent reputable shop top end rebuild and the other with the check engine light on and known SAI issue. Would you offer the exact same amount of money to each seller or would you expect the SAI car price to be lowered a bit to compensate for the cost you're going to have to put in it? And if you want the SAI car at a reduced cost would you start your negioations at $1500 off for a wire ream and blow job or would you start at $8000 off for a potential top end job?
As to your example of 2 cars for sale. The car without the valve guide work would be the baseline case. I would do leakdown, compression, and the litany of other PPI checks and if the result are good, I would not discount. Given that all engines wear and 100k isn't nothing, if the car with the valve guides done also came back with good results and was done by a reputable shop, I'd be willing to pay a few K more.
Given, however, that this is a 100k mile car, not a 50k mile car, its sort of a moot point. If you gave me 2 50k mile cars and one had valve guides done, I'd wonder why they were needed so early as its generally unusual.
You're free to have your opinion, as are any of the mechanics you reference, but just take it easy with the "factual" statements and no one would give you a hard time.
#64
Rennlist Member
well said Quad!
#66
You've rationalized this issue to make yourself feel better about the money you've spent. Good for you.
Frankly, we're not concerned about your thought process or conclusions. The reason I responded (and I'll venture Oliver did as well) is to call out the incredible load of BS you've been shoveling into this forum. Please stop. The only 993 experience you have is what "you've heard." Let the people who actually work on these cars and have experience provide the advice.
Frankly, we're not concerned about your thought process or conclusions. The reason I responded (and I'll venture Oliver did as well) is to call out the incredible load of BS you've been shoveling into this forum. Please stop. The only 993 experience you have is what "you've heard." Let the people who actually work on these cars and have experience provide the advice.
So what's your advice on the questions I asked in post #46?
#67
#68
Firstly, I would say that your suggestion that anyone with a 50k mile 993 or someone who buys a 50k mile 993 should immediately put $10k aside for valve guides is what people are taking issue with. Yes, some cars required them at very low miles. Others went very high miles. As with any bell curve, the bulk are likely in the middle and will likely need work between the 80k and 130k mile range. That said, these are engines, they wear. And just because your valve guides have worn doesn't mean they require immediate replacement.
As to your example of 2 cars for sale. The car without the valve guide work would be the baseline case. I would do leakdown, compression, and the litany of other PPI checks and if the result are good, I would not discount. Given that all engines wear and 100k isn't nothing, if the car with the valve guides done also came back with good results and was done by a reputable shop, I'd be willing to pay a few K more.
Given, however, that this is a 100k mile car, not a 50k mile car, its sort of a moot point. If you gave me 2 50k mile cars and one had valve guides done, I'd wonder why they were needed so early as its generally unusual.
You're free to have your opinion, as are any of the mechanics you reference, but just take it easy with the "factual" statements and no one would give you a hard time.
As to your example of 2 cars for sale. The car without the valve guide work would be the baseline case. I would do leakdown, compression, and the litany of other PPI checks and if the result are good, I would not discount. Given that all engines wear and 100k isn't nothing, if the car with the valve guides done also came back with good results and was done by a reputable shop, I'd be willing to pay a few K more.
Given, however, that this is a 100k mile car, not a 50k mile car, its sort of a moot point. If you gave me 2 50k mile cars and one had valve guides done, I'd wonder why they were needed so early as its generally unusual.
You're free to have your opinion, as are any of the mechanics you reference, but just take it easy with the "factual" statements and no one would give you a hard time.
Based on a few of the replies here, including yours it sounds like there's been more success than I've been led to believe with the wire ream and blow job for SAI issues. That's good news and something I'll be sure to share with the shops I deal with.
Again, thanks for the insight.
#69
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by JaramaGeorge
That's good news and something I'll be sure to share with the shops I deal with.
#70
Drifting
For what it's worth, many of the shops up here tend to be the same always suggesting top end work too. Bluntly it seems to be the go to solution for many issues, remember at the end of the day the shop is in the business of making $.
Fortunately we have local guys like MikeJ that offer sound advice before even loosely throwing out the top end required solution.
Fortunately we have local guys like MikeJ that offer sound advice before even loosely throwing out the top end required solution.
#71
Instructor
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Alberta, Canada
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Yep, took in my car for a PPI @ Dealer (I knew about the SAI), they suggested a motor rebuild for $25K Cad to fix the check engine light.
No thanks, but thanks for resetting the SAI light. It hasn't come back on for the last 1000 KM's
No thanks, but thanks for resetting the SAI light. It hasn't come back on for the last 1000 KM's
#72
Rennlist Member