I must be crazy...putting my 993 up for sale
09-24-2016, 12:52 PM
#31
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You must be livin good!
If you're at 109,000 miles you're due for one soon. I don't think many get past 120,000 miles before the SAI initiated check engine light comes on. And here in lovely California with that light on, you don't pass the smog check, which means get it fixed or park it in your garage. That fix typically is a minor or possibly major top end job. Cost runs as little as $5000 and as much as $15,000 depending on what you have done.
Not sure what year you have, I've heard that the '95 993 with the OBD-I is a different situation.
Besides my point was really meant for potential buyers of 993's not owners. As a buyer, if I ran across a 75,000 mile car that had a recent top end job vs one that didn't and all else was equal, I'd expect to pay at least $5,000 less for the one without the top end work. It's gonna need it possibly sooner rather than later. Imagine what a bummer it would be to find a nice clean 65,000 mile car, pay $50,000 for it only to be hit with an additional $10,000 repair a month after you take it home, especially if you passed on a 65,000 mile one that was just a couple of thousand dollars more but already had the top end done.
It's no different than tires, just less predictable but a lot more expensive. If I ran across two equal 911's and one had tires near the wear bars but the other one had new tires, I'd expect to pay at least $1000 less for the older tire car.
If you're at 109,000 miles you're due for one soon. I don't think many get past 120,000 miles before the SAI initiated check engine light comes on. And here in lovely California with that light on, you don't pass the smog check, which means get it fixed or park it in your garage. That fix typically is a minor or possibly major top end job. Cost runs as little as $5000 and as much as $15,000 depending on what you have done.
Not sure what year you have, I've heard that the '95 993 with the OBD-I is a different situation.
Besides my point was really meant for potential buyers of 993's not owners. As a buyer, if I ran across a 75,000 mile car that had a recent top end job vs one that didn't and all else was equal, I'd expect to pay at least $5,000 less for the one without the top end work. It's gonna need it possibly sooner rather than later. Imagine what a bummer it would be to find a nice clean 65,000 mile car, pay $50,000 for it only to be hit with an additional $10,000 repair a month after you take it home, especially if you passed on a 65,000 mile one that was just a couple of thousand dollars more but already had the top end done.
It's no different than tires, just less predictable but a lot more expensive. If I ran across two equal 911's and one had tires near the wear bars but the other one had new tires, I'd expect to pay at least $1000 less for the older tire car.
09-24-2016, 01:29 PM
#32
Three Wheelin'
09-24-2016, 01:32 PM
#33
BS. I own three 993s. All with more than 50K miles (the highest is 100K) with no appreciable oil consumption. Some cars have the issue, some don't.
09-24-2016, 11:09 PM
#34
My philosophy on 993 ownership is this;
Buy the car you can afford.
If it is a high miler, upgrade it over time, drive the s**t out of it and don't worry about preserving it for the next owner.
If you can afford a low miler, drive the s**t out of it and don't worry about preserving it for the next owner because you can afford it...
these cars are never going to be super rare so use it as Ferdinand intended!
my .02
Cheers
Buy the car you can afford.
If it is a high miler, upgrade it over time, drive the s**t out of it and don't worry about preserving it for the next owner.
If you can afford a low miler, drive the s**t out of it and don't worry about preserving it for the next owner because you can afford it...
these cars are never going to be super rare so use it as Ferdinand intended!
my .02
Cheers
09-25-2016, 12:02 AM
#35
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Such was the case with mine. 72,000 miles and not burning a drop of oil but the stinkin check engine light was on. $8000 later it runs as good as it did before the top end job and so far doesn't burn a drop more oil than it did before, but now I have a car that can actually be legally licensed and driven on California roads.
Hey, it's the cost of driving a great car, no complaints here, could be worse, could be a Ferrari.
09-25-2016, 02:26 AM
#37
SAI issues frequently require a top end job. Oil consumption may not even be an issue but you still have to pull the heads and clean the ports causing the SAI fault. While you're in there you usually end up doing other things as well.
Such was the case with mine. 72,000 miles and not burning a drop of oil but the stinkin check engine light was on. $8000 later it runs as good as it did before the top end job and so far doesn't burn a drop more oil than it did before, but now I have a car that can actually be legally licensed and driven on California roads.
Hey, it's the cost of driving a great car, no complaints here, could be worse, could be a Ferrari.
Such was the case with mine. 72,000 miles and not burning a drop of oil but the stinkin check engine light was on. $8000 later it runs as good as it did before the top end job and so far doesn't burn a drop more oil than it did before, but now I have a car that can actually be legally licensed and driven on California roads.
Hey, it's the cost of driving a great car, no complaints here, could be worse, could be a Ferrari.
09-25-2016, 02:39 AM
#38
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I've seen the Secondary Air issues pop up as early as 50,000 miles and as late as 120,000 miles. It's pretty much a given that a car with 75,000 miles is going to have a SAI check engine light come on sooner or later.
09-25-2016, 04:01 AM
#39
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No offense, but you're sadly misinformed. SAI ports can be easily cleared with the engine in the car. The cause of SAI port blockage is oil consumption. If your car was not consuming oil you wasted a lot of $$$ on a top end job. Perhaps all you needed was a new SAI valve. If I were you I'd ditch your mechanic.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...i-cel-faq.html
In any case $8000 every 100,000 miles is a bargain compared to the money spent on tires over that same period.
09-25-2016, 04:08 AM
#40
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Thank you for answering and posting the amount. For me that's not a reasonable number. It's Remove & Replace engine + head refresh. I'm glad I can do the work myself and I know alot of people that won't do that, so $8K is reasonable.
But for me, I plan to do the same job in the $2K range with new clutch (head refresh, fix oil chain cover leaks). And the head refresh because the heads carry all the heat and the exhaust valve guides need replacement on 993's from the factory. SAI light doesn't bother me (no emissions) but I don't want to pop an exhaust valve and lose my very expensive piston/cylinder
But for me, I plan to do the same job in the $2K range with new clutch (head refresh, fix oil chain cover leaks). And the head refresh because the heads carry all the heat and the exhaust valve guides need replacement on 993's from the factory. SAI light doesn't bother me (no emissions) but I don't want to pop an exhaust valve and lose my very expensive piston/cylinder
09-25-2016, 10:03 AM
#42
09-25-2016, 10:41 AM
#43
SAI port flush was not that big of a deal for me. 2 weekends when the car was already up on the stands for the winter. I plan on replacing the valve at 5 year intervals. If you wait for the ports to be completely blocked, your bad. I would buy a car with an SAI code if it meant getting a better deal. As it has been stated on this forum before by people with more experience than me, clogged SAI ports doesn't mean that the top end is toast. I don't know how effective this particular piece of pollution control technology is but I do know my kids would be pissed if they knew I was not maintaining it correctly.
09-26-2016, 10:45 AM
#44
Race Director
No offense taken, but there's obviously more than one way to skin a cat. AFAIK the jury is still out on the blow job method, it appears to work to a degree but probably not as effective as a tear down. Here's some Pelican tech discussion on the topic...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...i-cel-faq.html
In any case $8000 every 100,000 miles is a bargain compared to the money spent on tires over that same period.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...i-cel-faq.html
In any case $8000 every 100,000 miles is a bargain compared to the money spent on tires over that same period.
So, lets be clear:
1. 993 valve guides were not the most robust. Some needed replacement by 30k miles, yet others went 300k miles. Tolerance stack, luck of the draw, who knows, but there is nothing to indicate that EVERY 993 will need valve guide replacement anywhere near 50k miles.
2. SAI ports clog on the NA cars. There are multiple ways to try to clean them, including taking the heads off and going all out. Many members, however, have been successful in taking off the heat exchangers, flushing with solvent, using the brake cables in a drill, etc. This is not a death sentence for the heads.
