Juha G

Just got back from the 'ring again...had a great weekend pushing the 993 on the Nordschleife. Car is VERY well setup now with RS geometry and Moton shocks.
All it needs is more torque.

I've thought about going crazy with the engine (i.e. 9meister build) but then I don't really need that much more HP, just more torque. A 3.8 piston/cylinder set would do the trick with a little bit of ignition advance. (I got +30hp and +50Nm with Motec in my other 993).

Then I see this:

http://www.fvd.de/de/fi/Porsche-0/91...4_-_340HP.html

That sounds like serious bang for the buck.
Anyone have experience with this kit?

mr_bock

Juha,

You are having way too much fun!!!!!! Be safe, have fun...

saneproductions

Here is a link to a thread about my build this summer using most of these parts from FVD. Specifically I used the Mahle P and C set 109 bore in with tapered offset wrist pins, the matching RS spec cams they sell (ground by schrick), the 100 cell cats and the matching FVD chip. I also went with carillo rods and race springs. I did not go with solid lifters and the more aggressive cams you mention or the intake air filter as mine is for street. I PM'd you my phone number if you would like to talk more about this. In short, awesome setup.
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-forum/871880-95-c4-3-8-build.html

Bill Verburg

aren't you using a GT2 motor??

For track use RSR suspension is the way to go. All monoballs and much stiffer springs

for motor, bore in 102(bore)x109(base)mm is the way to go ~11.8cr on pump gas w/ SS or Cup cams. Any happier cam will require ITBs which is the next step up.

You need to do rods and valve train to Cup or RSR spec and Gt3 oil pump, w/ GT3 crank as very desirable but not absolutely necessary unless raising the revs into the 8K realm

Rothsport and 9M seem to be putting some of the nicer motors together these days. Al are variations on the above. Rothsport GT3 resonance plenum on ITBs is particularly nice way to go.

Juha G

Thanks for the replies guys!

I just read through the whole topic last night. Very informative! Thanks!

In my GT2, yes. But this is not the same car, this is my "RSR" creation.

I bought this car last spring (swapped my 997 with it), idea was to have a street mostly car that I can randomly take to the track.
This summer I broke my CUP engine so made a temporary race car out of this 993. (It already had a FIA approved cage in it). We put in Motons and RS uprights +some other necessary gofast goodies to the suspension.
I did a couple of races with it and retired it when my CUP was back in order.


Car has been at the 'ring since August and I've done a couple of weekends of Touristenfahrte on the Nordschleife. It looks like the car will stay at the ring for years to come.

The setup is so good at the moment I can really push the car hard with confidence and I enjoy every second behind the wheel. It is still on original rubber bushings and to be honest I see no reason to change anything in the suspension right now, it is just that good! Nordschleife is not your average track, it is something totally different with most of the driving at very high velocities. I don't think it is necessary to go all monoball there. It is more important to have good shocks. As an example you need to change to softer springs and longer shocks if you want to be competitive there with a CUP car.

It is a momentum track, so you can go really fast there with a low hp car if you have the skills and guts to carry the speed over the challenging highspeed sections. It is the traffic on the tourist days that makes you want more power. i.e. when you need to lift or brake to get a safe pass (or get behind traffic), it takes a long time in a low hp car to get up to speed again.

My car is a '94 so it's lacking torque in the lower rpm range. My '96 was much better with the varioram intake and the re-geared transmission.

Hence I'm looking for ways to get more torque.

Bill Verburg

I see, You Lucky dog.

The RSR body work allows wheels and tires that really allow the car to grip well. I was at the track last week w/ a similarly set up car. Couldn't stay w/ it despite a small hp/torque advantage.

As you say gearing is huge

The FVD kit is a sort of mystery to me. The 11.8 102x109 p&c are a big help, increasing torque across the board, the cams appear to be the excellent ss or Cup cams w/ mechanical lifters. But looking at the power curves I don't see the benefit that these cams ought togive. The cams shine above 6k and the power band should go into the low 7's. This is partly a function of the intake design and Motronic tuning but still is puzzling What I see is what is more typical of RS hydraulics that run out of steam before 7k. typically ~6.5k

The combination of gearing cams(revs) and displacement is synergistic when added to weight loss and suspension . The whole is way more than the sum of the individual parts.

For an occasional track use the stock rubber bushes in good condition are ok, but the RS are light years better , you have to drive it to believe the difference. Similarly a full RSR monoball setup is that much better for a dedicated track car. I agree good shocks are also important as is the RS wheel carriers. Again synergy.

k722070

can't you just switch to motec for this car too?

Juha G

I could...but Motec is about 3500 at the moment and a lot of work involved in doing good mapping. Of course I can take it to Manthey and the likes at the ring but honestly I feel like going the 3.8 route with more aggressive cams and doing that with a package that is well put together is the best route.
I don't have time to mess around with the car (unlike previously) because the car is in Germany and I live in Finland.
I fly there for the weekend and want to have fun from the get go.

Juha G

I think the biggest problem is really the gearing...this 993 is also a US version so it's even worse. I do have the re-geared transmission from my other 993 so that is definitely going in but I am so tempted to do the 3.8 build too.
Now the question is should change the conrods and the oil pump while I'm in there? Changing to even wilder cams and upgrading the head gear for more rpm and more power could be easily done in stage 2.
If I don't do the rods and the pump, I'd have to tear open the block again if I wanted more power.

Spyder_Man

Does your RSR already have a performance chip installed? I swapped a Steve Wong chip into my '95 and definitely noticed a smoother power/torque band as a result. I realize what I'm suggesting here is peanuts compared to the performance mods that you're used to, but why not start simple and then build up towards the bigger mods?

Also I followed Bill's advice regarding Elephant Racing sport hardness bushings in an RS-like configuration, and I have zero regrets... They're well worth it.

jscott82

Let em see if I have this straight... You are in the middle of building a full blown GT2.... Could not wait for it to finish, so bought an RSR clone to get by...

I think the answer is simple... Finish the RSR. Take it to Manthey and have them build a proper RSR endurance motor and transmission. Then you truly have the best of all worlds.

Ought to be pocket change compared to the GT2 build.

Juha G

You got it all wrong...

I bought a 997 'cause I wanted a street 911. Had that car for a year and used it more on track than on the street. The "RSR" belonged to a friend and I had told him that if the day comes that he wants to sell it, I should be the first to let know.
Well, that day came and we traded cars. My 997 for his 993.
Fastforward to this day; the RSR is at the ring and it's future is to act as my "ringtool".

A Manthey build would be really cool but knowing them, I'm afraid we are talking about 40-50keur engine build.
At this point I'd be ok with just a little bit more torque and better gearing.

saneproductions

I went for the carillo rods for safety and in part because the ARP rod bolts and refurbishing the stock rods end up costing half of what the carillos do. Since I was only raising the revs to 7200, I didn't go with the gt3 pump or gt3 crank. As soon as you raise those revs beyond that, there is a whole cliff you drop off price wise with oiling mods, intake, itbs etc.

405

how about the 9m heads with cams and the regear. seems like that should be plenty and cheaper than a 3.8 build.

Juha G

Ok, it's happening now... =)