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RS is quite low. It requires some changes in components to make the geometry work.
Some folks run RS+10 (middle ground from RS to RoW) which is also very low but perhaps more sustainable for an everyday car.
Thank you, yes upon further reading and searching thru old pics I am learning that RS height is probably too low for even spirited street use and more importantly, requires expensive other bits to achieve and sort out bump steer that I otherwise would not need given how I plan to use the car.
Originally Posted by fatmike
Just keep in mind the 20 year old rubber in the suspension has degraded. Your goal should be to "modernize" the suspension and restore it.
It's actually worth spending some time searching this forum as there are a number of known weak spots in the suspension (front control arm bushings, Tie-rods, etc.) and plenty of discussion of how to address those things.
Monoballs for this and that are absolutely an option - not so much because you want a race car, but because what's on the car has likely degraded and you need a replacement part.
Yes I have now searched and read a lot of the older posts. Still some confusion on details but I am getting clearer on the big choices and trade offs. Absolutely agree the objective is to modernize/fully refresh the car's suspension. Let it be the best it can be for my intended use... and don't go over board.
Originally Posted by Bill Verburg
RoW M030 ride height is great for what you describe
here is my car when I bought it, RoW M030 w/ 9 & 10 x18 225/40 & 265/36 tires
PSS10 are fine for street use as are Bilstein B6 hd, the PSS10 will be somewhat better but also somewhat more expensive. The nice thing about PSS10 is you get a complete engineered package springs and all.
For sporting use the RS got it right, emulate an RS for best sporting street setup.
the difference between RS and normal is shocks(RS used Bilsteins) and bushes(RS used stiffer bushes at 3 points: trailing leg of front and rear A arms and KT arm)
The best street setup I ever drove is Bilstein shocks(custom valved but PSS10 are going to be close) Elephant sport bushes on both front A arm legs, RS rear A arm and RS rear KT arm w/ new rear camber and toe arms.
have a shop that can set KT w/ the Porsche Motorsport tool do the alignment and corner balance.
At RoW height don't bother w/ the rear subframe mounts.
use at least 8" front and 10" rear wheels x18, 8.5 and 11 would be even better
Bill thank you - I searched your past comments on this well worn topic and learned helluva lot reading thru them. Took me quite some time to do so but glad I did. I appreciate your chiming in now with what is for sure old-hat knowledge for you.
I agree the ROW height looks really good for my application...closes down on the USA height stupid big wheel gaps but doesn't make the car look slammed and juvenile (or like a race car). I just want a height that 'looks like a stock car should be'... seeing your pic I am believing now that ROW height is about that...
Originally Posted by IXLR8
There is plenty of info on that on this forum, unfortunately most of it vague at best.
I have seen a few Bilstein B6 installations in my area using Porsche lowering springs and they cannot even attain ROW M030. They are sitting 10 mm lower in the rear and that is the highest they can go because they run out of adjustment threads. That is fine for those wanting the slammed look, but not for the owner who actually wants to sit at 144 front and 127 rear.
The question to ask is lower from what, US ride height (both standard and M030 are the same) or ROW standard ride height.
Yes indeed, when I get the car and start work on it of course we establish starting point for ride height. There have been previous owners and they have surely covered some of this ground. Upon more searching yes there is a wealth of info here but as you would expect it is not all consistent.
Originally Posted by JPS
Personally I would go pss10 RS + 10, check all the bushings. Don't go to crazy on the camber as you will make the car a bit darty on the street if your roads suck, as they do in NYC.
Roads here in Norcal - especially the ones I will enjoy the car on - are definitely a notch or two above NYC urban roads. But point taken...PSS9/10s with tie-rods and bushings refresh looks like the leading candidate for my solution. I don't want to make this any more complicated than need be. I have been down the road of super adjustable track suspensions on my 7GT3 and for this car I definitely want to avoid that experience. Too much choice is not a good thing. Just get me the right stuff, get it dialed in once and leave it. It is about DRIVING the car.
Last edited by golfnutintib; 08-29-2015 at 07:56 PM.
^ agreed, exact same setup on my 95 C2. I settled on PSS10 based on the all in one kit and adjustability factor both in stiffness settings and ride height. Money very well spent IMHO.
i asked several people before deciding on the PSS10. lifetime warranty, and the adjustability (should you ever decide you want to do more than canyon runs) was critical for me. i added turbo sways, and had the car lowered, aligned and CB'd. car handles beautifully. i should have done it years earlier. agreed, it's not the cheapest way to go, but neither is buying a porsche in the first place.
Upon more searching yes there is a wealth of info here but as you would expect it is not all consistent.
For starters, with any suspension system installed, I would list the spring used and then the max and min ride heights front and rear that are possible. I haven't seen that done yet.
If not lowering all the way down to RS ride height, are RS uprights (Elephant Racing) to correct bump steer issues completely unnecessary? I am thinking of going to RS + 10 mm with Bilstein Pss9/10's.
If not lowering all the way down to RS ride height, are RS uprights (Elephant Racing) to correct bump steer issues completely unnecessary? I am thinking of going to RS + 10 mm with Bilstein Pss9/10's.
To know for sure you would have to bump the suspension
That said the RS wheel carriers are designed for RS and lower, so you will probably be fine at RS +10mm
Bump isn't an on/off phenomena, it rises and drops on a arc, as the suspension moves up and down the arc changes. The thing that is most prominent in bump steer is toe change , but track and camber also change and contribute. Most cars aren't driven in a manner that exposes the bump steer anyway.
Guys this is all great info. I too am looking to replace the worn suspension on my 1997 C4 cab. My front passenger shock is leaking and its time. Being a cab it is clearly not a track car. My local shop is basically recommending the Bilstein HD setup with the old springs. The total is about $4100 all in (shocks 1600, 1100 upper strut mounts, 1066 labor, 265 tax). After reading this thread and others this seems a bit high to me...which is my first question to you guys. I have the option to bring my own parts but that increases the labor costs to offset (which i think is fair). But at that price maybe i shouldn't put simple HDs. I don't mind the normal NA ride height or RoW at lowest. Looking on line i can do the pss10 coilovers (2600 on line) that seem to be good to go out of the box. Same thing with the K1 V1 coilovers (2250 on line). These seem to be more bang for the buck if I'm spending the money (plus honestly they look pretty cool). I really just want the car to drive like it just came from the factory.
In reading these posts are there other worn suspension pieces i should definitely look to replace (tie rods or bushings?). Thanks in advance for the input....
Guys this is all great info. I too am looking to replace the worn suspension on my 1997 C4 cab. My front passenger shock is leaking and its time. Being a cab it is clearly not a track car. My local shop is basically recommending the Bilstein HD setup with the old springs. The total is about $4100 all in (shocks 1600, 1100 upper strut mounts, 1066 labor, 265 tax). After reading this thread and others this seems a bit high to me...which is my first question to you guys. I have the option to bring my own parts but that increases the labor costs to offset (which i think is fair). But at that price maybe i shouldn't put simple HDs. I don't mind the normal NA ride height or RoW at lowest. Looking on line i can do the pss10 coilovers (2600 on line) that seem to be good to go out of the box. Same thing with the K1 V1 coilovers (2250 on line). These seem to be more bang for the buck if I'm spending the money (plus honestly they look pretty cool). I really just want the car to drive like it just came from the factory.
In reading these posts are there other worn suspension pieces i should definitely look to replace (tie rods or bushings?). Thanks in advance for the input....
You probably read my original post in this thread. I’ve got a cabriolet as you do,it is a C2 vs. your C4, but I don’t think that changes much in your approach to your suspension refresh (others can chime in if I’m wrong on that). Since you’re taking everything apart, I personally wouldn’t put new shocks in and keep 20+ year old springs. IMHO, if you’re going to refresh the suspension, do as much as your wallet can tolerate the first time. If you do it piecemeal, or leave old parts on with the new parts, you might be delaying the inevitability of replacing the worn stuff as well as delaying the full enjoyment of a well-sorted 993 suspension. It might even be a wash in money spent at the end of things if you have to do multiple alignments as you progress through the refresh.
I went all in the first time...PSS10s, OEM tie rods, OEM ball joints, Walrod front bushings, and an alignment by a 993 master tech. The WEVOs, FDM Goldenrod/Short Shift Kit, and SS brake lines move the enjoyment meter even higher. You definitely want to add a front strut tower brace on a cab, you’ll be surprised at how much a difference that makes for $100-$200 and 10 minutes. I just drove the car yesterday and I was once again pleasantly surprised by how well the car handles, shifts, steers, and stops but also how compliant it is for a sports car.
Last edited by MielsOnWheels; 04-21-2018 at 11:18 AM.
Reason: Added sentence
Guys thanks for the great advice. I'm either going with the Koni FSD or more likely the B8s with M033 springs? Just want to see more pics of cars at this ride height. I am definitely going to do the FSM short shift kit and goldenrod along with a strut tower brace. Any suggestions on a good strut tower brace?
I have estimates from 2 independents. One wants to replace the strut mounts ($1100) the other says it isn't necessary. What do you guys think? I really don't hear any talk of strut mounts on any of threads here but it seems that they are a normal wear item? Thoughts?
Here's a ride height example. Car in foreground is on old-style B6s (same ride height adjustability as B8s) and M033 springs.
Front strut mounts have 2 components that could wear out based on what I've seen. First is a bearing. It's pretty easy to test once the mount is out of the car --just spin the bearing and feel for roughness. The other part is that the rubber could degrade affecting performance (just guessing). Other than a visual inspection for cracks, I'm not sure how to test this.
The more I shop the more confused I become. I really think the B8/M033 is the way to go; And I love the stance of the cars above! But I've recently heard really good things about the KW V1 from Rothslort. And I did a little research on the Porsche classic shocks which are made by blistein (a little more expensive but oem..) I've seen concerning posts about the durability of the K1. Blistein seem to be the best made? I don't want something that is coming to crack and leak in 2 years...after all the shocks on my car now have lasted 21 years!
I want to eliminate the Pss10 but it seems to be on a lot of 993s and you guys are very happy with them. On a cab though? My feeling is that it would be too harsh?
08-29-2015, 12:05 PM
