Edward

My 993 is a daily driver, and in SoCal so "summer" tires really are all I need. But tire wear is a costly drag! Sure it's a great car whose performance I want to enjoy every moment I drive it, as in daily commuting; but I don't want to be pissing money away either. Which is why I, too, subscribe to good quality tires that offer good street performance and longevity.

FWIW, in the past I've gone through Kumhos, Toyos, and now the Hankook v12. I've been fine with all of them. Good stick with spirited driving, decent feel, and last a decent amount of miles. Dunno if the 'kook v12 is still the hot ticket today for price/performance 993 tire (tell me, what are y'all using now as I'll be ready to replace all 4 soon?), but if so, I won't complain. IMHO, Kumho and Hankook's top-line performance street tires are both superb choices.

Edward

pp000830

Love your dark humor, ridicule can be a form o flattery!
Andy

M. Schneider

+1 Michelin Pilot Super Sports ... PS2's in OE Cup II 17" sizes.

The newer Pilot Super Sport A/S 3 is getting good press from the local Boxster/Cayman and GTI crowd here in the mountains of Colorado. Supposedly the newer A/S 3 tire model is a high performance 3 season tire with great attributes; braking, noise, wear, ride and handling. Had an opportunity to drive a borrowed MY14 Cayman 75 miles or so through a fast twisty 2 lane canyon hwy west of Vail, the Cayman was fitted with 4k mi old Pilot A/S 3's .... Great tire! (10 miles of the drive was in a typical PM Colorado mountain squall; RAIN)

The A/S 3 will be the next tire for my DD GTI when the current summer Pilot Super Sports are through.
A DD 993 owner should have a look.

nile13

Andy, humor aside, I'm seriously perplex with the idea of using bad (I will not say cheap, price doesn't matter) tires on a sports car.

You might not feel the difference every day. I certainly don't. But as an autocrosser, I do understand what the difference _is_. Even driving like grandma on the street (I do) I still advocate and use good sticky tires on a street car in case of emergency braking or avoidance of bad things. Especially with 993s costing what they do nowadays, I am willing to spend $700-800 on a set of tires that will last me 8K miles.

nile13

V12s are very good tires if you can live with a very soft sidewall. They do fine on the street because of that softness, but many (myself included) feel that the can bends its knees a little in a turn because of that,

V12 is a typical example of a second tier tire. Below Hankook's own RS-3 in performance, it's more comfortable, very decent all-around tire with very good stick on the street. There are several tires like that, a step below the absolute performance of the 4 or 5 I've named above and still great on the street and very reasonably priced.

BTW, Kumho and Hankook were typical example of a good product without having to pay for advertising. At least when I started using Kumho for both street and race rubber back in.. '99 or so? Things changed a bit, especially for Kumho. Both had become established mainline brands in US and have gone a little more into marketing than tire-making. Hankook less so, but Kumho, for example, has no super-tire today.

pp000830

I understand your point of view. I come out of a tier 1 automotive manufacturing background where quality is determined by test cell performance against a test plan. I have learned that at retail pricing can be an unrelated variable. However to each their own!

nile13

Ah, that's interesting. I had very limited experience with car manufacturing (though I used to read Automotive News religiously in the 80s and 90s). This was related to Delphi and the main conclusion I've drawn is that final per unit cost is so far above everything else that everything else combined is of no consequence, pretty much. It was a very strange and sobering experience. Quite honestly I would not understand the extent of Ed Norton Jr's job in Fight Club if I had not had that brief experience myself.

Preface: I suggest that tires is the single most important element of the car, by a huge margin. Followed by brakes, than suspension.

Now, than, onto tires To each their own, of course. My experience and (lack of) knowledge comes from autocrossing. Which in my opinion, is the closest you can get to an emergency situation on the street. Personally, I run on race tires so my view is skewed by that. But I instruct and occasionally run other people's street tire cars, including 993s. Hell, I periodically run my own 993 at an autocross course and verbally flog my GF when she does. It's been 2 993s and about 10 years of that. With about 5-6 sets of different tires.

So I have a test plan as you've mentioned above. The plan is to go faster and have ore control over the car. The test cell is shod with different tires and tested under different conditions. Thus I've gone from PS2s to Toyo R1Rs on my 993 and than onto Dunlop Z1 StarSpecs. If I needed tires today... the only conclusions I've reached is... well they are above in specific recommended tire models listed

PS. I have not bought a single Michelin tire for the last 25 years, though I've owned and experienced a lot of them. Including two sets of PS2s that I own today, one on a daily driven car. So I'm far from recommending the most expensive tire. And I like pinching pennies. Hey, I run on used Hoosiers.

PPS. I used to be an engineer. Thus the rumblings above

PPPS. There is a gentleman named Andy Hollis, who is a million times much more versed in street tires than myself, or most of this planet's population. I suggest searching for his opinions on the web as he tests tires professionally. A lot of very, very good and fresh info there.

nile13

Most importantly - guys, please stop me if I begin to sound like Johnny Irish

il pirata

I put PSS A/S 3 on the BMW 335 and love them. Work ok in snow as well (but not great). If I drove the 993 in cold weather this would be the tire, but alas, like many other Michelin tires, not available for the C4S (OEM size).

Edward

Hey there Nile,

Thanks for the feedback. I agree with your premise, to be sure. Choosing the "right" tire is all about balance and expectations. Err on the extreme "cheap" side and that can have costly outcomes, if not deadly; err on the "best" side and one literally pays for a potential that is never maximized, let alone even approached.

It's metaphorically like an "over-engineered" component: measured a bit "over-spec" and that piece is more durable, and can withstand duress beyond its mean expectations, which in the real world can mean a butt-saving moment. This is good. Yet over-engineered too far beyond the initially-prescribed expectations and, well, all you have is a very nice component that can withstand a moon-shot when all you really want to do is go to the market. Thus, only one of my cars wears R-comps

Which is why I have street expectations, which are markedly different from track expectations; and the latter is exactly why I own a Trackmeister. My street driving is "spirited commuting" on a daily basis, but nothing that would even approach hijinx that is best suited for the track.

Hence, when choosing a tire I desire a measure of performance to enjoy my teutonic art, as well as an extra measure of "performance insurance" for the unwelcomed but inevitable pucker-factor that occurs without provocation on public roads. But I don't care to pay copious greenbacks for killer performance when that dopey SMART car in front of me is sapping my joy (and darn near close to my life blood ...I wish he'd park it already!!!).

Maybe I'll stick to the kook v12, but you are spot on with your observation of the soft sidewall. That was my first real gripe when I first mounted them: not their stick, but their mushiness! I've come to cope with higher tire pressures, but as they are now approaching their useful end, I may reconsider.

BTW, I'll still be reading here for anyone with a good tire recommendation ...particularly if it helps me avoid buying the v12 again

Edward

nile13

That's just it, Edward. If a buyer clearly understand the compromises and the reasons why the tires are needed in the first place (hint: it's not to protect your engine tray from scraping the road), they can make decisions based on their usage, preferences, roads, weather, etc. Quite honestly, I did not understand their importance until I started autocrossing.