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Goodbye 997, hello 993!

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Old 12-04-2015, 04:32 PM
  #61  
Bill Verburg
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Originally Posted by Juha G
We ordered the kit from FVD today but unfortunately delivery time is end of January due to the 3.8 mahle P&C being on backorder...:bang head:

The cylinders on the kit are the slip on type btw but FVD replaced them with the bore in cylinders at no additional cost. According to them all that is needed is boring the blocks to accommodate the cylinders. However I remember reading somewhere that different conrods would be needed...?
There were several different 102mm p/c sets
one difference was the cylinder spigot base, 107mm stock and 109mm for the RS and RS cylinders, these latter used a more robust base seal and also had a groove machined into the case in the base area.

RS/RSR cylinder base groove and profile gasket


there were several different N/A cr and weight pistons from 11.3 to 12.5, the lighetest were the .70s used in 993Cup engines

964 pistons used the 3.3-964 rods w/ wider wrist pin end
993 pistons used the 993 rods which have a narrower wrist pin end and shorter wrist pins, RSR have tapered wrist pins

102mm, 12 RSR w/ tapered wrist pin


for comparison a stock 993 100mm piston and regular non tapered wristpin


So as long as the FVD kit is for 993 you could use stock 993 rods but that would restrict revs to
Old 12-05-2015, 05:12 AM
  #62  
Juha G
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Originally Posted by Bill Verburg
There were several different 102mm p/c sets
one difference was the cylinder spigot base, 107mm stock and 109mm for the RS and RS cylinders, these latter used a more robust base seal and also had a groove machined into the case in the base area.

RS/RSR cylinder base groove and profile gasket


there were several different N/A cr and weight pistons from 11.3 to 12.5, the lighetest were the .70s used in 993Cup engines

964 pistons used the 3.3-964 rods w/ wider wrist pin end
993 pistons used the 993 rods which have a narrower wrist pin end and shorter wrist pins, RSR have tapered wrist pins


So as long as the FVD kit is for 993 you could use stock 993 rods but that would restrict revs to
Thanks Bill.

As far as I understood, these are 109mm and the cr is 11.8:1
FVD claims 340hp and 390Nm so it's about +70hp and +70Nm improvement. Plus there is a lot more grunt in the lower rpm range compared to the 3.6, especially since it has non-varioram intake.

The rev limiter is set at 7,000rpm. FVD can raise it if I want. Only reason I would want raise it is introducing the "new" gearbox with shorter ratios. i.e. raising the rev limit slightly would give more room to find the correct gear for each corner. Meaning you could go into the turn in a smaller gear, knowing you will not run into the limiter during corner exit.

What do you think is safe rpm with stock bottom end (including rods) but with stiffer valve springs and titanium retainers?

Last edited by Juha G; 12-05-2015 at 09:00 AM.
Old 12-05-2015, 02:51 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Juha G
Thanks Bill.

As far as I understood, these are 109mm and the cr is 11.8:1
FVD claims 340hp and 390Nm so it's about +70hp and +70Nm improvement. Plus there is a lot more grunt in the lower rpm range compared to the 3.6, especially since it has non-varioram intake.

The rev limiter is set at 7,000rpm. FVD can raise it if I want. Only reason I would want raise it is introducing the "new" gearbox with shorter ratios. i.e. raising the rev limit slightly would give more room to find the correct gear for each corner. Meaning you could go into the turn in a smaller gear, knowing you will not run into the limiter during corner exit.

What do you think is safe rpm with stock bottom end (including rods) but with stiffer valve springs and titanium retainers?
We set mine to 7200 just to allow that little bit of extra room, even though I never really take it over 6800. I went with the carillo rods, and race springs but kept the stock crank and oil pump. If you go carillo, they come with stronger rod bolts already so no need to buy arp bolts or recondition the stock rods which pays for 30-50% of the carillos.
Old 12-06-2015, 03:29 PM
  #64  
Bill Verburg
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Originally Posted by Juha G
Thanks Bill.

As far as I understood, these are 109mm and the cr is 11.8:1
FVD claims 340hp and 390Nm so it's about +70hp and +70Nm improvement. Plus there is a lot more grunt in the lower rpm range compared to the 3.6, especially since it has non-varioram intake.

The rev limiter is set at 7,000rpm. FVD can raise it if I want. Only reason I would want raise it is introducing the "new" gearbox with shorter ratios. i.e. raising the rev limit slightly would give more room to find the correct gear for each corner. Meaning you could go into the turn in a smaller gear, knowing you will not run into the limiter during corner exit.

What do you think is safe rpm with stock bottom end (including rods) but with stiffer valve springs and titanium retainers?
I ran 7200 for a year but backed it off to 7k now, I almost always shift at 6700 though. stock rods w/ ARP rod bolts and RS cams. The only time I go more is when it's awkward to shift because of track conditions or layout.

vram or not makes little to no difference at the top of the rev range

really the only things I regret not doing are the valve springs and rods.
Old 12-06-2015, 05:18 PM
  #65  
Juha G
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Originally Posted by Bill Verburg
I ran 7200 for a year but backed it off to 7k now, I almost always shift at 6700 though. stock rods w/ ARP rod bolts and RS cams. The only time I go more is when it's awkward to shift because of track conditions or layout.

vram or not makes little to no difference at the top of the rev range

really the only things I regret not doing are the valve springs and rods.
So cough up for a set of Carillo rods and go up to 7200 or even 7400rpm?
Old 12-06-2015, 05:53 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Juha G
So cough up for a set of Carillo rods and go up to 7200 or even 7400rpm?
Next go round, but I'm thinking GT3 crank & oil pump, custom l/w pistons and 7500-8000
Old 01-28-2016, 04:56 PM
  #67  
Juha G
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I bought the Carillo rods too.

And so it begins

Old 01-29-2016, 01:21 PM
  #68  
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Wait, so in that video of you on the Nurbergring you are running a stock 95 3.6l? Wow, you rock.

Re the gt3 crank, where does one get those part numbers? The Katalog does not seem to have them.

What about heads? There are a few independents out there that make either their own heads, or modify stock heads. The claim being that the diameter of the intake is too large to keep velocity and fuel charge at optimal rates, or at least that how I understand it.

I just bought new suspension parts. Your videos got me all worked up and eager to hit the track. Thanks for posting them.
Old 01-29-2016, 04:05 PM
  #69  
Juha G
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Originally Posted by knorrena
Wait, so in that video of you on the Nurbergring you are running a stock 95 3.6l? Wow, you rock.
Not entirely true...the engine is bone stock, 272hp. But the suspension is good, really good! Moton CS shocks, monoball top mounts, RS uprights in front, RS stabilisers, wider track and beefy rubber (265 fr/305 rear).
Nordschleife is a true momentum track, you don't need a lot of power to be fast there, you just need to be able to carry the speed through the challenging sections. Where you need power is when you need to lift or brake for traffic on a tourist day.



Originally Posted by knorrena
Re the gt3 crank, where does one get those part numbers? The Katalog does not seem to have them.

What about heads? There are a few independents out there that make either their own heads, or modify stock heads. The claim being that the diameter of the intake is too large to keep velocity and fuel charge at optimal rates, or at least that how I understand it.

I just bought new suspension parts. Your videos got me all worked up and eager to hit the track. Thanks for posting them.
I'd think you can order a GT3 crank through any dealer.

With regards to the heads, I really wanted to keep this build simple. Hence the FVD kit with a little bit of extras (sport valves, ti retainers, stiffer springs, carillo rods).
My engine builder is very experienced, he's been building racing engines for 20+ years. First thing he said when we removed the intake was that the heads need some work. Just as a curiosity, when he re-built my 996 CUP engine he said there is absolutely nothing he can do to make those heads better.
According to him the intake port on the 993 head is kind of L-shaped and that sharp corner just before the valve needs to be smoothed/machined out.
He will test the heads on a flow bench before and after the modification.
This fix is supposedly worth at least 20hp...we will see.

I'll make a separate thread on the head work.
Old 01-29-2016, 04:48 PM
  #70  
Juha G
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I will take apart the alternator/fan and paint the fan housing + blades.
I noticed the alternator axle is a little bent; rotating the axle and holding the fan in place, it wobbles. PET doesn't show any parts for the alternator, is it really so I have to buy a complete new alternator to fix this?

Old 01-29-2016, 05:07 PM
  #71  
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One of the very few places I have some Porsche mechanical experience: the fan. Mine blew apart in the first week I owned my car. Two of the fins had fractures at the base of the fin and came loose at about 6000rpm. It was loud and scared the crap out of me. There wasn't much damage (needed a new crank pulley, new fan belts, new belt sensor).

On close examination of the fan, two more fins have cracks at the base. They sound different when I tap on them too. Given the amount of cash your going to invest in your rebuild, I would get a new fan.

You made a comment about varioram. I converted my car to varioram. At first I was disappointing with the result. I expected a more dramatic change in performance. It took a little while to appreciate the differences. There is more torque around 4500 rpm and that helped at our local track because its a short and twisty track. Off the line it seems quicker too. The sound of the intake is little more muffled at some rpms, but when the varioram cuts in its more intoxicating than the non-varioram.
Old 01-30-2016, 04:06 AM
  #72  
Juha G
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Originally Posted by cvhjh
I'm waiting for in car video!
Here's from last fall:


For after engine build we'll have to wait until March/April.
Old 01-30-2016, 04:36 AM
  #73  
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Old 01-30-2016, 09:57 AM
  #74  
Juha G
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Took me 2.5 hours to clean up the intake...full of gunk inside and out. yak!









I don't know what the hell has happened with the fuel hose but it was almost punctured by something sharp...scary!




Took apart the fan and the alternator. I'll replace the bearings while I'm at it. Maybe try to straighten up the axle on a mill.
I shot blasted the fan with soda, no visible cracks. I think I'll just paint it.

Old 01-30-2016, 08:30 PM
  #75  
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Any ideas on why your intake was so full of oil? Mine had more than i expected too.


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