Suspensions change and alignment help
10-26-2014, 01:42 PM
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Suspensions change and alignment help
I am taking the plunge and doing the suspension on my 96 C2 NB. I am going with Koni FSD’s ad M029 springs (standard ROW ride height) The only mods from stock are MY02 18inch 5spoke wheels with the correctly sized tires.
I know that it is probably in the forum somewhere, but I am looking for the definitive, best threads that address the following issues:
1. Comprehensive instructions/warnings/suggestions for doing the strut/spring change.
2. Alignment specs - I am NOT looking for the maximum handling setting. I would like the settings that are easiest on the tires.
3. Any special instructions for aligning the car.
4. Do I need the special kinematic tool (or any other specialized tools) I’ve read about? What do they do and where can I get them?
If anyone has any other suggestions or warnings feel free to chime in.
BTW, I have to love this forum. Because of other threads I was able to correctly diagnose and repair valve cover leaks, which was about the least expensive thing that could have been causing the leaking.
Thanks in advance for the help and I apologize if these answers are in other threads.
I know that it is probably in the forum somewhere, but I am looking for the definitive, best threads that address the following issues:
1. Comprehensive instructions/warnings/suggestions for doing the strut/spring change.
2. Alignment specs - I am NOT looking for the maximum handling setting. I would like the settings that are easiest on the tires.
3. Any special instructions for aligning the car.
4. Do I need the special kinematic tool (or any other specialized tools) I’ve read about? What do they do and where can I get them?
If anyone has any other suggestions or warnings feel free to chime in.
BTW, I have to love this forum. Because of other threads I was able to correctly diagnose and repair valve cover leaks, which was about the least expensive thing that could have been causing the leaking.
Thanks in advance for the help and I apologize if these answers are in other threads.
10-27-2014, 01:55 PM
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1. Comprehensive instructions/warnings/suggestions for doing the strut/spring change.
The job is rather easy I did it in my driveway without a lift. You may want to consider an inexpensive spring compressor to disassemble the existing struts, about $10 at Harbor Freight. If you want to detach the outside ball joints as well (not necessary) they sell a tool for that too for a few bucks.
The factory service manual says you should replace the 4 nuts on each hat (top) used to bolt the assembly to the body. So you may want to order the nuts ahead of time.
An inexpensive height adjustable coil-over option I have had great daily driver results with for the last several years is the H&R Street Performance Coil-Over kit 29954-1 , both springs and matched struts for all four wheel-ends, cost < $2000 if you shop around, I got mine on e-Bay. You can reuse the existing rear anti-sway bar down-links with this kit.
In my case I cut a slot in the brake line perch on the old struts to remove the lines and cut a similar slot in the replacement units. This is a common procedure and eliminates the need to open the brake lines to thread them through that adds a reattach and bleed step to the process. It also opens the potential of some complications with the brake line fittings.
2. Alignment specs - I am NOT looking for the maximum handling setting. I would like the settings that are easiest on the tires.
As long as you don't lower the car below the ROW lowered height you can use the stock alignment setting. See the attached.
3. Any special instructions for aligning the car.
Yes use a shop that knows these cars,
4. Do I need the special kinematic tool (or any other specialized tools) I’ve read about? What do they do and where can I get them?
Yes there is an aftermarket tool but it is a pain in the butt.
I would take it to a shop after you mount the struts as you will have addressed the costly aspect of the job.
The job is rather easy I did it in my driveway without a lift. You may want to consider an inexpensive spring compressor to disassemble the existing struts, about $10 at Harbor Freight. If you want to detach the outside ball joints as well (not necessary) they sell a tool for that too for a few bucks.
The factory service manual says you should replace the 4 nuts on each hat (top) used to bolt the assembly to the body. So you may want to order the nuts ahead of time.
An inexpensive height adjustable coil-over option I have had great daily driver results with for the last several years is the H&R Street Performance Coil-Over kit 29954-1 , both springs and matched struts for all four wheel-ends, cost < $2000 if you shop around, I got mine on e-Bay. You can reuse the existing rear anti-sway bar down-links with this kit.
In my case I cut a slot in the brake line perch on the old struts to remove the lines and cut a similar slot in the replacement units. This is a common procedure and eliminates the need to open the brake lines to thread them through that adds a reattach and bleed step to the process. It also opens the potential of some complications with the brake line fittings.
2. Alignment specs - I am NOT looking for the maximum handling setting. I would like the settings that are easiest on the tires.
As long as you don't lower the car below the ROW lowered height you can use the stock alignment setting. See the attached.
3. Any special instructions for aligning the car.
Yes use a shop that knows these cars,
4. Do I need the special kinematic tool (or any other specialized tools) I’ve read about? What do they do and where can I get them?
Yes there is an aftermarket tool but it is a pain in the butt.
I would take it to a shop after you mount the struts as you will have addressed the costly aspect of the job.
10-27-2014, 03:50 PM
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1. Comprehensive instructions/warnings/suggestions for doing the strut/spring change.
The job is rather easy I did it in my driveway without a lift. You may want to consider an inexpensive spring compressor to disassemble the existing struts, about $10 at Harbor Freight. If you want to detach the outside ball joints as well (not necessary) they sell a tool for that too for a few bucks.
The factory service manual says you should replace the 4 nuts on each hat (top) used to bolt the assembly to the body. So you may want to order the nuts ahead of time.
An inexpensive height adjustable coil-over option I have had great daily driver results with for the last several years is the H&R Street Performance Coil-Over kit 29954-1 , both springs and matched struts for all four wheel-ends, cost < $2000 if you shop around, I got mine on e-Bay. You can reuse the existing rear anti-sway bar down-links with this kit.
In my case I cut a slot in the brake line perch on the old struts to remove the lines and cut a similar slot in the replacement units. This is a common procedure and eliminates the need to open the brake lines to thread them through that adds a reattach and bleed step to the process. It also opens the potential of some complications with the brake line fittings.
2. Alignment specs - I am NOT looking for the maximum handling setting. I would like the settings that are easiest on the tires.
As long as you don't lower the car below the ROW lowered height you can use the stock alignment setting. See the attached.
3. Any special instructions for aligning the car.
Yes use a shop that knows these cars,
4. Do I need the special kinematic tool (or any other specialized tools) I’ve read about? What do they do and where can I get them?
Yes there is an aftermarket tool but it is a pain in the butt.
I would take it to a shop after you mount the struts as you will have addressed the costly aspect of the job.
The job is rather easy I did it in my driveway without a lift. You may want to consider an inexpensive spring compressor to disassemble the existing struts, about $10 at Harbor Freight. If you want to detach the outside ball joints as well (not necessary) they sell a tool for that too for a few bucks.
The factory service manual says you should replace the 4 nuts on each hat (top) used to bolt the assembly to the body. So you may want to order the nuts ahead of time.
An inexpensive height adjustable coil-over option I have had great daily driver results with for the last several years is the H&R Street Performance Coil-Over kit 29954-1 , both springs and matched struts for all four wheel-ends, cost < $2000 if you shop around, I got mine on e-Bay. You can reuse the existing rear anti-sway bar down-links with this kit.
In my case I cut a slot in the brake line perch on the old struts to remove the lines and cut a similar slot in the replacement units. This is a common procedure and eliminates the need to open the brake lines to thread them through that adds a reattach and bleed step to the process. It also opens the potential of some complications with the brake line fittings.
2. Alignment specs - I am NOT looking for the maximum handling setting. I would like the settings that are easiest on the tires.
As long as you don't lower the car below the ROW lowered height you can use the stock alignment setting. See the attached.
3. Any special instructions for aligning the car.
Yes use a shop that knows these cars,
4. Do I need the special kinematic tool (or any other specialized tools) I’ve read about? What do they do and where can I get them?
Yes there is an aftermarket tool but it is a pain in the butt.
I would take it to a shop after you mount the struts as you will have addressed the costly aspect of the job.
10-27-2014, 05:05 PM
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Google , Jackals racetrack, very many DIY threads and a good suspension DIY .... Should give you a bit of insight into the 993 setup .
Installed m033 and FSD with a friend who has a lift and it was relatively easy......have it aligned by a pro !,
Enjoy
Installed m033 and FSD with a friend who has a lift and it was relatively easy......have it aligned by a pro !,
Enjoy
10-27-2014, 05:16 PM
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I wouldn't dream of doing the alignment myself. I was just wondering if there were different settings for different driving styles, since I want the easiest-on-the-tires setup.
10-27-2014, 10:09 PM
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See attached.
Andy
10-27-2014, 10:24 PM
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PS Be aware that the H&R and the Bilstein are both rebuild able so if this is what is on your car now they can be rebuilt and save you $1500 vs new. Not sure this is the case with the FSD.
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10-28-2014, 12:30 AM
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10-28-2014, 01:13 AM
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With very little wrenching experience, I did this install about a month ago following this thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...pdate-1-a.html. crw and I used M033 lowering springs, but I suspect it won't be much different with your M029's. I bought a spring compressor, and used it a tad, but didn't really need it.
Don't forget to use some whiteout or marker to record the alignment marks as you'll be removing the trailing toe arm on the rear, and the camber on the shocks in front. I'd start with the fronts since it's easier to get to the lock nuts (you'll be contorted to get to the rears), and that'll give you confidence for the rears.
What I wish I knew before I started:
You need to jack up the engine to remove the concentric alignment bolt, but you may not get enough clearance from the heat exchanger until I loosened a fastener towards the front (follow the pipe towards the front of car about 1/2 way). It was a 6mm hex with a 10mm nut behind if memory serves.
Since you're not dropping the car height too much, just use the stock alignments (what you have now) so you can drive it to a shop for a real one. They should ask how you plan on driving, how important tire wear is, etc. and adjust accordingly.
Check your front control arm bushings - might be time to replace those. I was stupid and didn't see this until later. Walrod bushings are a popular choice here, or Elephant Racing if you prefer closer to OEM.
The plastic bits on the front shocks are brittle after 18+ years, but you might be able to transfer them if you're careful. It took awhile to figure out, but they are all spreaders clips, so just push from behind with a flathead screwdriver to "unspread" them.
You might need new bump stops, mine were deteriorated.
Don't forget to use some whiteout or marker to record the alignment marks as you'll be removing the trailing toe arm on the rear, and the camber on the shocks in front. I'd start with the fronts since it's easier to get to the lock nuts (you'll be contorted to get to the rears), and that'll give you confidence for the rears.
What I wish I knew before I started:
You need to jack up the engine to remove the concentric alignment bolt, but you may not get enough clearance from the heat exchanger until I loosened a fastener towards the front (follow the pipe towards the front of car about 1/2 way). It was a 6mm hex with a 10mm nut behind if memory serves.
Since you're not dropping the car height too much, just use the stock alignments (what you have now) so you can drive it to a shop for a real one. They should ask how you plan on driving, how important tire wear is, etc. and adjust accordingly.
Check your front control arm bushings - might be time to replace those. I was stupid and didn't see this until later. Walrod bushings are a popular choice here, or Elephant Racing if you prefer closer to OEM.
The plastic bits on the front shocks are brittle after 18+ years, but you might be able to transfer them if you're careful. It took awhile to figure out, but they are all spreaders clips, so just push from behind with a flathead screwdriver to "unspread" them.
You might need new bump stops, mine were deteriorated.
10-28-2014, 01:27 PM
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10-28-2014, 01:40 PM
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With very little wrenching experience, I did this install about a month ago following this thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...pdate-1-a.html. crw and I used M033 lowering springs, but I suspect it won't be much different with your M029's. I bought a spring compressor, and used it a tad, but didn't really need it.
Don't forget to use some whiteout or marker to record the alignment marks as you'll be removing the trailing toe arm on the rear, and the camber on the shocks in front. I'd start with the fronts since it's easier to get to the lock nuts (you'll be contorted to get to the rears), and that'll give you confidence for the rears.
What I wish I knew before I started:
You need to jack up the engine to remove the concentric alignment bolt, but you may not get enough clearance from the heat exchanger until I loosened a fastener towards the front (follow the pipe towards the front of car about 1/2 way). It was a 6mm hex with a 10mm nut behind if memory serves.
Since you're not dropping the car height too much, just use the stock alignments (what you have now) so you can drive it to a shop for a real one. They should ask how you plan on driving, how important tire wear is, etc. and adjust accordingly.
Check your front control arm bushings - might be time to replace those. I was stupid and didn't see this until later. Walrod bushings are a popular choice here, or Elephant Racing if you prefer closer to OEM.
The plastic bits on the front shocks are brittle after 18+ years, but you might be able to transfer them if you're careful. It took awhile to figure out, but they are all spreaders clips, so just push from behind with a flathead screwdriver to "unspread" them.
You might need new bump stops, mine were deteriorated.
Don't forget to use some whiteout or marker to record the alignment marks as you'll be removing the trailing toe arm on the rear, and the camber on the shocks in front. I'd start with the fronts since it's easier to get to the lock nuts (you'll be contorted to get to the rears), and that'll give you confidence for the rears.
What I wish I knew before I started:
You need to jack up the engine to remove the concentric alignment bolt, but you may not get enough clearance from the heat exchanger until I loosened a fastener towards the front (follow the pipe towards the front of car about 1/2 way). It was a 6mm hex with a 10mm nut behind if memory serves.
Since you're not dropping the car height too much, just use the stock alignments (what you have now) so you can drive it to a shop for a real one. They should ask how you plan on driving, how important tire wear is, etc. and adjust accordingly.
Check your front control arm bushings - might be time to replace those. I was stupid and didn't see this until later. Walrod bushings are a popular choice here, or Elephant Racing if you prefer closer to OEM.
The plastic bits on the front shocks are brittle after 18+ years, but you might be able to transfer them if you're careful. It took awhile to figure out, but they are all spreaders clips, so just push from behind with a flathead screwdriver to "unspread" them.
You might need new bump stops, mine were deteriorated.
Last edited by OverBoosted28; 10-28-2014 at 09:08 PM.
10-28-2014, 06:54 PM
#12
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It seems the setting is the same for all suspension heights from US at the High end to ROW lowered at the low end. From reading, my understanding is that there is a preferred value for both sides and it is important part to get both sides at the same value. Seeing that later 911 no longer have the kinematic adjustment but do share the same suspention design I wonder how often it really needs to be adjusted once set properly.
10-29-2014, 01:28 AM
#13
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I'm having a suspension specialist do a corner balance as part of my alignment. Then, while he's at it, he can measure the toe change vs wheel height per corner and set kinematic using a bump steer correction.
This is the best plan I've heard, any downsides opposed to using factory (expensive) tool?
This is the best plan I've heard, any downsides opposed to using factory (expensive) tool?
10-29-2014, 01:41 AM
#14
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I'm having a suspension specialist do a corner balance as part of my alignment. Then, while he's at it, he can measure the toe change vs wheel height per corner and set kinematic using a bump steer correction.
This is the best plan I've heard, any downsides opposed to using factory (expensive) tool?
This is the best plan I've heard, any downsides opposed to using factory (expensive) tool?
10-29-2014, 02:40 AM
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I went to Roger Kraus in Castro Valley. They had a younger kid in there to do my alignment. Wasn't happy (at first) to see such a young guy that was going to do my alignment. I helped him out, pointing out all of the custom stuff I made for the rear suspension. Turned out the kid was sharp and had a pretty good grasp on 993's. If the cars low, make sure they have the kinematic (motorsports) tool that hangs off of the caliper bolts. The other one won't work.