Update or keep it stock? (pics)
#31
Rennlist Member
There are many reasons to own a Porsche, and I do not mean to criticize those that are different than my own. I own them because of their performance and solidity. The difference between driving a stock height, stock suspension 993 and a ROW height, suspension updated 993 is significant. And that is just the tip of the iceberg. Improving gearing makes a HUGE impact on acceleration and available power, LWFW makes heal-toe easier, etc.
On every Porsche I've ever owned, I have discovered design flaws that, when corrected, make the car safer, more reliable and predictable, and more fun to drive. By fun to drive, I mean better handling around turns, more stable and shorter distance braking, more predictable transitions, better sound (subjective). I'm guessing the appeal for not upgrading is integrity of the original design and aesthetic appreciation, again subjective, but just as legitimate, IMHO.
So the question comes down to what you value. Happily, unlike most things in the world, we can each have whatever we want!
On every Porsche I've ever owned, I have discovered design flaws that, when corrected, make the car safer, more reliable and predictable, and more fun to drive. By fun to drive, I mean better handling around turns, more stable and shorter distance braking, more predictable transitions, better sound (subjective). I'm guessing the appeal for not upgrading is integrity of the original design and aesthetic appreciation, again subjective, but just as legitimate, IMHO.
So the question comes down to what you value. Happily, unlike most things in the world, we can each have whatever we want!
#32
+993
i bought the car for me to enjoy, not as an investment for the next owner, of which there will never be one, since the car is not and will never be for sale. in fact, i would sell the OEM parts to offset the costs of upgrades.
i bought the car for me to enjoy, not as an investment for the next owner, of which there will never be one, since the car is not and will never be for sale. in fact, i would sell the OEM parts to offset the costs of upgrades.
#33
Drifting
Exactly the approach I took upgrading my 95 C2 I don't give two shakes about the future owners needs when and if that were to occur.
#34
Addict
Rennlist Member
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On a wider scale, like many said here, decide what you want to do with the car and modify or don't modify based on that. Hey, some go as far at destroying a car as making RWB conversions. To each their own.
Last edited by nile13; 09-02-2014 at 02:18 PM.
#35
As a guy who has been modifying my cars mechanically and physically since I was a teenager, I relate to this whole thread. But, just look at my Targa and you can see the route I am taking. The newer Carreras have a more monochrome look. So, I have been buying used parts from RLers & painting them body color. All OE parts are in boxes.
#36
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Purdy. With the newer wheels do you have ROW ride height?
As a guy who has been modifying my cars mechanically and physically since I was a teenager, I relate to this whole thread. But, just look at my Targa and you can see the route I am taking. The newer Carreras have a more monochrome look. So, I have been buying used parts from RLers & painting them body color. All OE parts are in boxes.
#37
Rennlist Member
These cars look/drive way better with mods, but take it from someone with a car for sale - MOST buyers want original cars. That's what's bringing the money these days.
Mods you can't see are one thing - like SSK and Goldenrod. Mods like different seats, ducktails, wheels, etc. seem to hurt. At least that's what I'm seeing. My car leans a little to the extreme with the no radio and airbags 86'd though.
Mods you can't see are one thing - like SSK and Goldenrod. Mods like different seats, ducktails, wheels, etc. seem to hurt. At least that's what I'm seeing. My car leans a little to the extreme with the no radio and airbags 86'd though.
#38
FWIW, within the past few months there was an article in Keith Martin's Sports Car Maket Magazine (reports worldwide auction results), which stated that the Porsche's valued most by collectors now (air-cooled for now) and into the future will have the OEM/stock suspensions and that the aftermarket high performance setups would/will degrade value in a collector's view. And further stated that at least some of the aftermarket high performance setups actually degrade the enjoyment from the perspective of ride and handling.
Again, not my view, but the magazine's in-house Porsche writer/collector.
Again, not my view, but the magazine's in-house Porsche writer/collector.
#40
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Here's something to consider when "modifying" suspension on a US (or Canadian) spec 993: "lowering" the car to ROW height using factory components puts the car to the design Porsche engineers chose for the rest of the world. The "SUV" ride height on US/CDN cars was to make insurance companies happy.
#41
Drifting
Here's something to consider when "modifying" suspension on a US (or Canadian) spec 993: "lowering" the car to ROW height using factory components puts the car to the design Porsche engineers chose for the rest of the world. The "SUV" ride height on US/CDN cars was to make insurance companies happy.
Add those bumperettes for North American cars to the list for the insurance companies too! Can't see how switching to proper ROW bumpers would de-value the car.
To the OP, if your thinking about value 30 years from now, it's not the right reasons to own this car. Enjoy it for what it is today.
#42
Rennlist Member
I vote for keeping it stock, with the caveat that you replace/upgrade parts as they wear out. So new suspension if the old one is failing, etc.
I'm apparently the only one who likes the stock ride height. All the lowered cars (even the ROW cars) look too low to me - they look like some kid's lowered Honda riceburner racer. I'm keeping mine as stock as possible/feasible.
I'm apparently the only one who likes the stock ride height. All the lowered cars (even the ROW cars) look too low to me - they look like some kid's lowered Honda riceburner racer. I'm keeping mine as stock as possible/feasible.
#43
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I bought a 1995 one owner Carrera last year.
sits on factory 16" wheels. SUV ride height. Rides so good almost a crime to change it.
Your miles are not garage queen low, but by no means high. High enough to have a little fun like i have done:
I bought a correct Euro ride height suspension which I feel is the best way to stay true to the factory on such an original car. (Still not on my car however)
I replaced all interior light bulbs with LED from suncoast.
I have real deal 993RS wheels waiting to go on the car. Realistically Cup II would have sufficed. The 16" wheels are getting harder to find good tires FYI.
I also have a real RS wing and a donor trunk lid to do a plug and play swap.
CDR1 crapped out and installed a CDR220 with ipod cable. Great mod.
Also removed the casette holder and installed double cup holder from suncoast.
Clear corners from Suncoast/FVD.
Finally, I did Fister II mufflers. Trust me, do this now. You will not miss the stock muffler configuration.
Considering doing motorsound airbox.
Also, dont be afraid to install Rennline track mats to save your carpet or mats from being scuffed out.
I cannot see myself going any further then this. Car still appears original and stock. Everything can go back to stock in an hour if desired.
sits on factory 16" wheels. SUV ride height. Rides so good almost a crime to change it.
Your miles are not garage queen low, but by no means high. High enough to have a little fun like i have done:
I bought a correct Euro ride height suspension which I feel is the best way to stay true to the factory on such an original car. (Still not on my car however)
I replaced all interior light bulbs with LED from suncoast.
I have real deal 993RS wheels waiting to go on the car. Realistically Cup II would have sufficed. The 16" wheels are getting harder to find good tires FYI.
I also have a real RS wing and a donor trunk lid to do a plug and play swap.
CDR1 crapped out and installed a CDR220 with ipod cable. Great mod.
Also removed the casette holder and installed double cup holder from suncoast.
Clear corners from Suncoast/FVD.
Finally, I did Fister II mufflers. Trust me, do this now. You will not miss the stock muffler configuration.
Considering doing motorsound airbox.
Also, dont be afraid to install Rennline track mats to save your carpet or mats from being scuffed out.
I cannot see myself going any further then this. Car still appears original and stock. Everything can go back to stock in an hour if desired.
#44
Nordschleife Master
I am not in agreement with the authors view on mods ... especially on a 911 SC
FWIW, within the past few months there was an article in Keith Martin's Sports Car Maket Magazine (reports worldwide auction results), which stated that the Porsche's valued most by collectors now (air-cooled for now) and into the future will have the OEM/stock suspensions and that the aftermarket high performance setups would/will degrade value in a collector's view. And further stated that at least some of the aftermarket high performance setups actually degrade the enjoyment from the perspective of ride and handling.
Again, not my view, but the magazine's in-house Porsche writer/collector.
Again, not my view, but the magazine's in-house Porsche writer/collector.
June 2014 Porsche’s No-Frills Performance Bargain Written by Jim Schrager
1979 Porsche 911SC, sold for $14,580 in 2011
There’s nothing more fun than buying, driving and enjoying a bargain sports car. Today, in our red-hot collector car market, most hope — and perhaps pray — that our purchases will continue to appreciate. Yet the prospect of price appreciation someday is different than a bargain today. The 911SC is that rarity which represents a great value in today’s market. The 911SC saved Porsche from a botched response to U.S. emission controls imposed in 1974. Intended to be the rear-engine swan song, the 911SC instead proved to be a tremendously enjoyable and durable design. Long the everyday car of choice for many Porsche enthusiasts, the 911SC is well built, reliable, inexpensive to run, and just plain fun to drive.
By 1978, the entire body and chassis were galvanized — except the bolt-on front fenders, which were added in 1981. Everyday rust that plagued Porsches from time immemorial doesn’t exist for the 911SC. Although rust-proofing started in 1976, the 1976–77 cars have engine weaknesses — relating to emission controls — making them far less desirable than the 911SC.
Maintenance for the long, fun haul
Thirty years on, the 911SC engine has three areas of concern.
First, most owners upgrade to “Carrera” oil-fed cam-chain tensioners, costing around $2,500 for parts and labor.
Next, the fuel-injection airbox can break with a backfire on start-up, so a special “pop-off” valve solves the problem at about $250 installed.
Finally, head studs can fail after 30 years or so. When they do, you’ll hear a distinct “popping” on hard acceleration. Plan on $4,000 to do all 24, and you’ll be ready for another three decades of motoring pleasure.
Transmissions are strong and long lasting — if shifted with a slight pause between gears. You can always tell a know-nothing Porsche pilot as he smashes gears from one to the next with a single, swift, sharp motion. If the 911SC you are looking at shifts hard or grinds between shifts, the sturdy 915 gearbox can be rebuilt to work like new for about $3,500. Used properly, the gearbox will last another 30 years — or more.
Steer away from racer “upgrades”
For the most part, “upgrades” are downgrades if you want a reliable, fun, durable car for the street. Most add-ons you see in Porsche magazines were developed for track use. Few help when driving a car on the street, and many trigger big trade-offs you probably won’t like.
The biggest mistake I see people make is to go for the “Sports Suspension.” Gosh, that has such a nice ring to it, doesn’t it? I’m a good sport, I bet I’d like a sports suspension. I mean really, who wouldn’t? The answer is almost no one. Sure, if you want your 911SC to ride like a dump truck, by all means, be my guest. Although it will handle better at 120 mph that way, my problem is, on the street, I don’t often drive that fast. Or ever.
Every part of every car is a compromise. Porsche carefully selected a balance between track-style handling and ride comfort at normal road speeds. Stick with stock torsion bars and shocks to enjoy the suspension as originally engineered. Now, you can do anything you want; it’s okay with me. But don’t tell me it’s an upgrade.
Wheels are another part of Porsche’s carefully selected suspension. For the best street ride, go with the standard-fitment 15-inch ATS “Cookie Cutters” in six-inch and seven-inch widths. If you want a firmer ride and better high-speed handling, select the 16-inch Fuchs forged alloys that came with most 911SCs delivered in the United States. Stick with the six-inch and seven-inch widths. If you go bigger or wider, ride quality will quickly deteriorate.
Stay original and watch it soar
911SC prices remained constant from the mid-1980s for about two decades at $15k–$20k for a nice one. From Europe, in 2007–09, came the demand for original-paint, low-mile SCs (30k–50k miles) that would bring $40k or more. This price level hasn’t caught on in the U.S., but in general, prices are firming, and nice SCs can easily bring prices in the mid-$20k range — or more. Coupes, cabriolets and Targas trade at about the same money, even though SC cabs are quite rare. You’ll want an original interior and paint color, as well as stock body parts and drivetrain. Go-fast geegaws, such as turbo whale-tail spoilers, slant-nose fenders, and monster rear flares do not add value, nor do maximus mondo engines.
First 356 (1949–65) prices went stratospheric, now early 911s (1965–73) have followed, in some cases topping 356s. With the 1974–77 cars being less desirable, the next great Porsche to ascend as demand builds for vintage machines is the 1978–83 911SC. Long recommended by marque experts as an ideal car to own, no other Porsche, new or old, provides a better balance between ease of ownership and pure pleasure. Or as good a value.
1979 Porsche 911SC, sold for $14,580 in 2011
There’s nothing more fun than buying, driving and enjoying a bargain sports car. Today, in our red-hot collector car market, most hope — and perhaps pray — that our purchases will continue to appreciate. Yet the prospect of price appreciation someday is different than a bargain today. The 911SC is that rarity which represents a great value in today’s market. The 911SC saved Porsche from a botched response to U.S. emission controls imposed in 1974. Intended to be the rear-engine swan song, the 911SC instead proved to be a tremendously enjoyable and durable design. Long the everyday car of choice for many Porsche enthusiasts, the 911SC is well built, reliable, inexpensive to run, and just plain fun to drive.
By 1978, the entire body and chassis were galvanized — except the bolt-on front fenders, which were added in 1981. Everyday rust that plagued Porsches from time immemorial doesn’t exist for the 911SC. Although rust-proofing started in 1976, the 1976–77 cars have engine weaknesses — relating to emission controls — making them far less desirable than the 911SC.
Maintenance for the long, fun haul
Thirty years on, the 911SC engine has three areas of concern.
First, most owners upgrade to “Carrera” oil-fed cam-chain tensioners, costing around $2,500 for parts and labor.
Next, the fuel-injection airbox can break with a backfire on start-up, so a special “pop-off” valve solves the problem at about $250 installed.
Finally, head studs can fail after 30 years or so. When they do, you’ll hear a distinct “popping” on hard acceleration. Plan on $4,000 to do all 24, and you’ll be ready for another three decades of motoring pleasure.
Transmissions are strong and long lasting — if shifted with a slight pause between gears. You can always tell a know-nothing Porsche pilot as he smashes gears from one to the next with a single, swift, sharp motion. If the 911SC you are looking at shifts hard or grinds between shifts, the sturdy 915 gearbox can be rebuilt to work like new for about $3,500. Used properly, the gearbox will last another 30 years — or more.
Steer away from racer “upgrades”
For the most part, “upgrades” are downgrades if you want a reliable, fun, durable car for the street. Most add-ons you see in Porsche magazines were developed for track use. Few help when driving a car on the street, and many trigger big trade-offs you probably won’t like.
The biggest mistake I see people make is to go for the “Sports Suspension.” Gosh, that has such a nice ring to it, doesn’t it? I’m a good sport, I bet I’d like a sports suspension. I mean really, who wouldn’t? The answer is almost no one. Sure, if you want your 911SC to ride like a dump truck, by all means, be my guest. Although it will handle better at 120 mph that way, my problem is, on the street, I don’t often drive that fast. Or ever.
Every part of every car is a compromise. Porsche carefully selected a balance between track-style handling and ride comfort at normal road speeds. Stick with stock torsion bars and shocks to enjoy the suspension as originally engineered. Now, you can do anything you want; it’s okay with me. But don’t tell me it’s an upgrade.
Wheels are another part of Porsche’s carefully selected suspension. For the best street ride, go with the standard-fitment 15-inch ATS “Cookie Cutters” in six-inch and seven-inch widths. If you want a firmer ride and better high-speed handling, select the 16-inch Fuchs forged alloys that came with most 911SCs delivered in the United States. Stick with the six-inch and seven-inch widths. If you go bigger or wider, ride quality will quickly deteriorate.
Stay original and watch it soar
911SC prices remained constant from the mid-1980s for about two decades at $15k–$20k for a nice one. From Europe, in 2007–09, came the demand for original-paint, low-mile SCs (30k–50k miles) that would bring $40k or more. This price level hasn’t caught on in the U.S., but in general, prices are firming, and nice SCs can easily bring prices in the mid-$20k range — or more. Coupes, cabriolets and Targas trade at about the same money, even though SC cabs are quite rare. You’ll want an original interior and paint color, as well as stock body parts and drivetrain. Go-fast geegaws, such as turbo whale-tail spoilers, slant-nose fenders, and monster rear flares do not add value, nor do maximus mondo engines.
First 356 (1949–65) prices went stratospheric, now early 911s (1965–73) have followed, in some cases topping 356s. With the 1974–77 cars being less desirable, the next great Porsche to ascend as demand builds for vintage machines is the 1978–83 911SC. Long recommended by marque experts as an ideal car to own, no other Porsche, new or old, provides a better balance between ease of ownership and pure pleasure. Or as good a value.