JUMP FROM A C4S X51 TO A TT
08-26-2014, 06:38 PM
#1
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JUMP FROM A C4S X51 TO A TT
Hi all,
something is running around my head randomly every now and then.
I am really interested in your opinion about the switch from C4S to TT.
Sometime I ask myself,after a ride with some friend's of mine TTs,if I should swap Her.
After few moments of confusion,I still keep my "Cozza".
I purchased my C4S almost 14 years ago instead of a TT(the prices were quite close to the TT one because the C4S is really beefy on specs and the fact that the 3.8 engine was the highest expression of a street legal original Flat six to get the max power from a NA).
This are,my opinion,the pros and cons:
TT PRO:
torque and power
basic specs
clutch smoothness
rear wing exclusivity(not my taste)
C4S PRO:
cleaner shape(depends on taste,but closer to the 911 first shape)
engine sound
revving abilities
fuel consumption(is not so important)
TT CONS:
fuel
keeping cost(turbines overhaul etc)
C4S CONS:
underpowered compared to the frame/suspensions/brakes
lower basic specs
harder clutch
the 3.8 engine is soo sweet,but there is always space for improvements!
Now I wear my flame suit and get ready
something is running around my head randomly every now and then.
I am really interested in your opinion about the switch from C4S to TT.
Sometime I ask myself,after a ride with some friend's of mine TTs,if I should swap Her.
After few moments of confusion,I still keep my "Cozza".
I purchased my C4S almost 14 years ago instead of a TT(the prices were quite close to the TT one because the C4S is really beefy on specs and the fact that the 3.8 engine was the highest expression of a street legal original Flat six to get the max power from a NA).
This are,my opinion,the pros and cons:
TT PRO:
torque and power
basic specs
clutch smoothness
rear wing exclusivity(not my taste)
C4S PRO:
cleaner shape(depends on taste,but closer to the 911 first shape)
engine sound
revving abilities
fuel consumption(is not so important)
TT CONS:
fuel
keeping cost(turbines overhaul etc)
C4S CONS:
underpowered compared to the frame/suspensions/brakes
lower basic specs
harder clutch
the 3.8 engine is soo sweet,but there is always space for improvements!
Now I wear my flame suit and get ready
08-26-2014, 07:19 PM
#3
Nordschleife Master
Both cars are great, and your list of pros and cons is pretty accurate. I would make the following comments:
"keeping costs" : the 993TT has proven to be pretty robust, and the maintenance costs difference between it and a NA 993 are negligible.
"engine sound" : its a bit harder to get any turbo to sound as sweet as a NA car, but you can get pretty close. I have Ruf sport cats and a center exhaust (hence a longer tailpipe), and my car sounds pretty good.
"fuel" : amen brother. I get about 14mpg around town, and struggle to get 21mpg on the hiway. The ultra low compression ration kills you when you are not on boost, and when you are on the boost... well, that kills you too. You can't win.
Good luck
"keeping costs" : the 993TT has proven to be pretty robust, and the maintenance costs difference between it and a NA 993 are negligible.
"engine sound" : its a bit harder to get any turbo to sound as sweet as a NA car, but you can get pretty close. I have Ruf sport cats and a center exhaust (hence a longer tailpipe), and my car sounds pretty good.
"fuel" : amen brother. I get about 14mpg around town, and struggle to get 21mpg on the hiway. The ultra low compression ration kills you when you are not on boost, and when you are on the boost... well, that kills you too. You can't win.
Good luck
08-26-2014, 08:28 PM
#4
Drifting
Sounds like you have a loaded 4S, so from an options point of view you probably already have some of the standard TT options such as full leather interior, OBC, etc. I have spent substantial driving time in my brother's loaded 4S so your pros/cons are pretty accurate.
I'm assuming the gearing on your 3.8 is vastly improved vs regular 3.6? One thing about the TT is the superb gearing in addition to HP.
As stated above the maintenance cost isn't as bad as some may think. To re-build a set of turbos is fairly inexpensive and if taken care of well these easily last 60K+ miles.
Personally I wouldn't call the TT clutch system a plus, I much prefer the simpler NA system. When the slave/accumulator go, this is typically a pricey repair.
I'm going to assume since your in Europe, the driving limits are vastly higher vs. North America, therefore the added power will be better utilized. We all know the roads there are pretty amazing! Otherwise many will comment why the need for more power when the C4S is more than adequate for the streets.
The separation gap nowadays from NA to TT (with same mileage) is pretty substantial vs. say 2-3 years ago. If this isn't an issue, then I would go for it. After all, you've had the 4S for 14 years already, change is not a bad thing.
I'm assuming the gearing on your 3.8 is vastly improved vs regular 3.6? One thing about the TT is the superb gearing in addition to HP.
As stated above the maintenance cost isn't as bad as some may think. To re-build a set of turbos is fairly inexpensive and if taken care of well these easily last 60K+ miles.
Personally I wouldn't call the TT clutch system a plus, I much prefer the simpler NA system. When the slave/accumulator go, this is typically a pricey repair.
I'm going to assume since your in Europe, the driving limits are vastly higher vs. North America, therefore the added power will be better utilized. We all know the roads there are pretty amazing! Otherwise many will comment why the need for more power when the C4S is more than adequate for the streets.
The separation gap nowadays from NA to TT (with same mileage) is pretty substantial vs. say 2-3 years ago. If this isn't an issue, then I would go for it. After all, you've had the 4S for 14 years already, change is not a bad thing.
08-26-2014, 10:20 PM
#6
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Factory optioned X51 cars are few and far between. Being a later car, yours probably has the longer geared transmission that all North American cars came with which takes some of the fun out of the normally aspirated engines.
There's no doubt whatsoever that the Turbo will run away and hide from the NA cars in any situation. They can sound pretty damned special when properly setup as well.
How fast do you want to go? My personal comfort level for a road car given the current "attitude" towards fast cars says a normally aspirated 993 is more than quick enough to enjoy on our roads. In fact it's quick enough to get thrown in jail and have the car impounded VERY easily.
There's no doubt whatsoever that the Turbo will run away and hide from the NA cars in any situation. They can sound pretty damned special when properly setup as well.
How fast do you want to go? My personal comfort level for a road car given the current "attitude" towards fast cars says a normally aspirated 993 is more than quick enough to enjoy on our roads. In fact it's quick enough to get thrown in jail and have the car impounded VERY easily.
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08-27-2014, 04:21 AM
#9
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Bcameron sometimes I even say "caxxo",
it depends on the situation ah ah ah
Some roads are quite impressive and the NA's power more than adequate,
but who cares about adequate when you can have more? !?
It is "almost" never enough.
Thank you guys, this trd doesn't shine my dilemma
but at least I don't feel alone.
I like both, so I should get both, but.....
Probably the Andial 3.8 conversion should cure many of my diseases,
but I love the "untouched" original car,
so I probably need a streetable RSR!
One positive thing from the owner is the cost,I thought turbo overhaul was more expensive,
but in Italy the fuel costs a lot, and if you are like me, that use only premium quality, it is more than 2 €/lt.....
that is probably a bull-**** to try convince me not to JUMP
oh boy
PS anybody from TT to C4S or that wasn't happy?
OPO where are you?
it depends on the situation ah ah ah
Some roads are quite impressive and the NA's power more than adequate,
but who cares about adequate when you can have more? !?
It is "almost" never enough.
Thank you guys, this trd doesn't shine my dilemma
but at least I don't feel alone.
I like both, so I should get both, but.....
Probably the Andial 3.8 conversion should cure many of my diseases,
but I love the "untouched" original car,
so I probably need a streetable RSR!
One positive thing from the owner is the cost,I thought turbo overhaul was more expensive,
but in Italy the fuel costs a lot, and if you are like me, that use only premium quality, it is more than 2 €/lt.....
that is probably a bull-**** to try convince me not to JUMP
oh boy
PS anybody from TT to C4S or that wasn't happy?
OPO where are you?
08-29-2014, 08:09 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
but who cares about adequate when you can have more? !?
Agreed. When driving alone on back country roads I never have the desire to have more power. It's when there is traffic and other cars are involved that I really wish I had more ooomph.
Picture this Scenario:
You are driving up a fantastic mountain road, humming along between 3-5k rpm. Not racing, just having a sweet sweet drive. To have fun you don't need a lot of power as your momentum is already enough to put you in jail. You round a corner and there is a giant, new, shiny SUV lumbering along ahead of you at 15mph.
No problem you think, there is a passing lane coming up in a mile. So you tuck in behind the lumbering truck and wait for a safe place to pass. Finally the road straightens out, you can see the dashed lines in the distance when all of a sudden you look up and the SUV in front of you is pulling away. You shift to 2nd and pin the throttle, you gain some distance. You shift to third and the 2 ton SUV that was once plodding along is once again out-accelerating you. As the last of the dashed lines pass on your left and solid ones take their place you see the brake lights of the SUV come on as it slows back down to 15 mph for the next corner... Aaaargh! You blew it. It's another 6 miles of drudgery until the next passing lane.
Agreed. When driving alone on back country roads I never have the desire to have more power. It's when there is traffic and other cars are involved that I really wish I had more ooomph.
Picture this Scenario:
You are driving up a fantastic mountain road, humming along between 3-5k rpm. Not racing, just having a sweet sweet drive. To have fun you don't need a lot of power as your momentum is already enough to put you in jail. You round a corner and there is a giant, new, shiny SUV lumbering along ahead of you at 15mph.
No problem you think, there is a passing lane coming up in a mile. So you tuck in behind the lumbering truck and wait for a safe place to pass. Finally the road straightens out, you can see the dashed lines in the distance when all of a sudden you look up and the SUV in front of you is pulling away. You shift to 2nd and pin the throttle, you gain some distance. You shift to third and the 2 ton SUV that was once plodding along is once again out-accelerating you. As the last of the dashed lines pass on your left and solid ones take their place you see the brake lights of the SUV come on as it slows back down to 15 mph for the next corner... Aaaargh! You blew it. It's another 6 miles of drudgery until the next passing lane.
08-31-2014, 07:04 PM
#14
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Chaoscreature
you make me wonder to do the :KILL THE SUV petition ah ah ah
I just got back from a perfect riding day in the colline tosco-romagnole.
I didn't regret the turbine because of my sound,but their torque outside the U turns were amazing
No solution to my enigma,YOU(me and you all) need to own both!
you make me wonder to do the :KILL THE SUV petition ah ah ah
I just got back from a perfect riding day in the colline tosco-romagnole.
I didn't regret the turbine because of my sound,but their torque outside the U turns were amazing
No solution to my enigma,YOU(me and you all) need to own both!
08-31-2014, 08:19 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
but who cares about adequate when you can have more? !?
Agreed. When driving alone on back country roads I never have the desire to have more power. It's when there is traffic and other cars are involved that I really wish I had more ooomph.
Picture this Scenario:
You are driving up a fantastic mountain road, humming along between 3-5k rpm. Not racing, just having a sweet sweet drive. To have fun you don't need a lot of power as your momentum is already enough to put you in jail. You round a corner and there is a giant, new, shiny SUV lumbering along ahead of you at 15mph.
No problem you think, there is a passing lane coming up in a mile. So you tuck in behind the lumbering truck and wait for a safe place to pass. Finally the road straightens out, you can see the dashed lines in the distance when all of a sudden you look up and the SUV in front of you is pulling away. You shift to 2nd and pin the throttle, you gain some distance. You shift to third and the 2 ton SUV that was once plodding along is once again out-accelerating you. As the last of the dashed lines pass on your left and solid ones take their place you see the brake lights of the SUV come on as it slows back down to 15 mph for the next corner... Aaaargh! You blew it. It's another 6 miles of drudgery until the next passing lane.
Agreed. When driving alone on back country roads I never have the desire to have more power. It's when there is traffic and other cars are involved that I really wish I had more ooomph.
Picture this Scenario:
You are driving up a fantastic mountain road, humming along between 3-5k rpm. Not racing, just having a sweet sweet drive. To have fun you don't need a lot of power as your momentum is already enough to put you in jail. You round a corner and there is a giant, new, shiny SUV lumbering along ahead of you at 15mph.
No problem you think, there is a passing lane coming up in a mile. So you tuck in behind the lumbering truck and wait for a safe place to pass. Finally the road straightens out, you can see the dashed lines in the distance when all of a sudden you look up and the SUV in front of you is pulling away. You shift to 2nd and pin the throttle, you gain some distance. You shift to third and the 2 ton SUV that was once plodding along is once again out-accelerating you. As the last of the dashed lines pass on your left and solid ones take their place you see the brake lights of the SUV come on as it slows back down to 15 mph for the next corner... Aaaargh! You blew it. It's another 6 miles of drudgery until the next passing lane.
It's all about the right gear, right rpm range, and timing. A few second's worth of burst will still get you round most in a NA 993. Yea, there have been a few time's when I wished for more power, but 90% of the time, it's just oppourtunity and timing that makes the pass.