Reno 911

I'm in the market for a 993 and just had a PPI performed on a 1995 C2. I was hoping you guys could give the PPI results a read and let me know if I should proceed or keep looking. A very good friend of mine and his father are very well versed in Porsches (his dad is a well known racing instructor in the area and races in the vintage Porsche class) and I'm seeking their advice as well. In any case, here we go:

1995 Porsche 911 (993)
Miles: 108,709
Color: Slate Gray Metallic
Interior: Black
Price: $39,000
Inspection was performed with the buyer present.

Engine & Gearbox
Engine Compression was in acceptable range. The Engine has oil leaks from the timing Chain covers on both sides. Spark plug wires look to have been replaced recently, oil looks clean. Exhaust, as well as other parts of the car, were victim of salty sea air which has caused rust to develop on areas without protection. Fan in engine compartment is unplugged - most likely because it is bad and needs to be replaced. This fan helps the cooling of the engine. A/C compressor is slightly leaking - unsure how long the car will hold freon and may need frequent refills. The inner belt on the alternator has some small cracks.

Transmission has a slight leak from the axle shaft seals on both sides goes into gear well, but shifter bushings need to be replaced to restore proper operation. CV joint Boots need to be replaced on both sides. The clutch feels good.

Suspension & Brakes
Suspension has been upgraded all around with Bilstein coilovers, everything is tight on the front and rear, but is in need of alignment (the steering wheel is not straight and the car pulls slightly to the right). Wheels need to be balanced. The brakes look good all around. There is a good amount of rust that has developed on the rotors which could have a negative affect on braking capabilities, rust may also be a challenge when it is time to replace the brake pads. At the time of inspection, the car braked ok, brake pedal is a little soft, but performance is good.
Tires are good all around, front tires have scaling, but this could be caused by the misalignment

Interior & Exterior
The car is clean on the inside with expected wear on the driver seat for the age and mileage. Dash board has small rip in the middle and on the passenger side, can be seen if you look down through the windshield. the gauges are a little faded by the sun. Parking brake needs to be adjusted or checked for pad wear.

The outside of the car has some rock chips and evidence of dent removal on the hood, only one dent was found on the lower part of the passenger side door. It is obvious that some parts of the car were repainted, but there were no obvious signs of an accident or structural damage. The seals around the door handles are falling apart, the curtain on the rear retractable wing is missing. The center reflector is brittle and beginning to crack. Rims in the back have been repainted, but not good quality, the front rims are slightly faded

Electronics
The factory radio does not work. Parking brake warning light does not illuminate, all the exterior lights seem to be working properly, alarm seems to be working properly but the horn does not function, everything else seems to working fine

Overall, the car is in decent condition, but will need some work in the near future. Some repairs may be more costly because of the rust that has affected areas of the car.

nathan1

Just my .02 is it's a GREAT and hard to find color combo but otherwise it sounds like a fairly neglected car. I recognize the market is very tight right now but I just sold a VERY nice well sorted 95 coupe with 50k miles for high $40's. You couldn't spend $10k on that one and make it as nice. I would keep looking.

Reno 911

Thanks for the feedback. I forgot to mention that the car was a one owner car, has service records since 2001, and had quite a bit of work done over the past four years. The main items addressed are listed below. Clearly, however, there's still several items that would need to be addressed now and over a few years (plan to keep it as a weekend car).

1. Complete engine reseal. The inspector said that the timing covers are likely warped a bit and explains why they still slightly leak after the reseal.
2. Clutch
3. Sunroof

Mark in Baltimore

The rotor rust is not a big deal. Surprised that any mechanic would bother mentioning it in a PPI.

You or your mechanic/body shop needs to put a paint gauge meter on the body work to assess how much damage was done. There are other tell-tale signs to look for, but the meter can assess how much bondo was used.

fatmike

AC = it's cheaper these days to put in an entire modern refrigerant system than recharge an old system.

The rust makes me uncomfortable. Also, some of the wear/repair items seem unusual. I couldn't get past the exterior condition on the car - particularly history of bodywork.

Does the car have any desirable modifications (PSS10's, litronics, etc.)?

Honestly, at this price and condition and miles -- I think I'd pass. Have you driven or seen any alternatives?

Good luck with your decision.


/

NYC993

Who wrote this ppi report? Was this a Porsche shop?

What's acceptable compression range? You also need to look for consistency. Was leak down done?
Fan disconnected? Wtf are they talking about? Cooling fan can't be disconnected (it's connected by a belt) and if not working, it's a major issue.

Oil leaks are fine, I'd wait and see. There were posts that you can simply replace rubber donuts or torque the bolts slightly more (just not much more).

Braking is ok? They should tell you what % of pad is left. Has the fluild been flushed every 2-3 years? If not it can impact ABS lines, and ABS unit is not cheap (1-2k?

New ignition wires is a good thing, they are pricey to buy and not that easy to replace

AC would also cost some money to fix.

What about rust around windows, that can cost quite a bit to fix.

How is steering rack? any leaks, that can also be pricey.

New clutch is a big plus.

You gotta ask yourself, how many issues has PPI not uncovered. PPIs are far from perfect even the ones that are done my good shops.

40k is a lot for this car. 35 tops.

therossinator

Nothing you say seems indicative of major money. However there a ton of small money projects (a couple hundred each repair if completed yourself and none need immediate attention) and the asking price is at least 25% higher than typical market. But who knows, markets are always changing. Just my opinion.

Reno 911

I had the PPI done at Koby Motors in Houston, TX. I need to preface that I was with the guy inspecting the car, so he checked a lot and provided a lot of comments to me during the inspection. He said that if I wanted, he would spend a full day performing a PPI and provide detailed photographs and descriptions of any problem areas. Because I'm close to his shop, I preferred that he skip that step and I'd just look at the car with him (saving him time, saving me money). He was also very quick to point out problem areas, which made me feel quite comfortable with his level of knowledge.

1. Compression is between 180-190 psi on all cylinders.
2. Oil is clean, power steering fluid was clean.
3. Spark plugs are okay, not great, no bad.
4. The only repainted areas are around the windows where rust likely occurred (I've read this is common).
5. The fan referenced is for the heater (which also interacts with the heat exchanger?). The engine cooling fan is fine.
6. Steering rack is fine, car needs an alignment
7. The car looks to have PSS9's all around.

Thanks for all the help so far!

TouringTeg

Maybe there is some room for negotiations since the PPI has revealed a number of issues. Yes it is common for a rust bubble to form around the windshield or rear window.

IMO it has reasonable miles and a very desirable color combo. Seems like it is local to you which is also a plus (saves you travel expenses and shipping/transport). However if you aren't a fan of the slate on black and the seller won't go any lower you may want to pass.

Spyder_Man

I bought my 993 with 160k miles for far less money and far better cosmetic condition (based upon your description). The steering rack checked out ok during the PPI but after 3k miles of use it started leaking badly. If your car has the original steering rack, I'd assume you'll need to replace it. That's at least a couple thousand $$ right there between parts and labor.

The suspension on my car was original and needed replacement. Your car sounds like it has new Bilsteins struts. We're just the struts replaced or some of the control arms and bushings as well? Might have more suspension work needed down the road. How about the engine mounts? Are the tail pipes drooping (especially when the car is on the lift)?

The engine compression sounds ok, but it concerns me to read that it is leaking after a reseal was performed. That makes me question the quality of work done on the car prior. Was any further top end work performed beyond gasket replacements?

Paint around the windows is suspicious too. These cars rush around the window seals easily. Was the rush repaired or just sanded down and painted over? The repair records and firsthand account from the owner should answer that.

How about the door check straps? Any evidence of repair or retrofitting? And flex in the straps now? That's another big ticket repair there.

Even replacement rotors and pads aren't cheap on these cars. If they are work expect to replace them. At that mileage if they haven't been replaced prior, I'd expect them to need it soon.

The AC is expensive to overhaul. Someday I'll be going down that road. The stereo receive, amp, and speakers will all likely need replacement at this stage.

Has this car been sitting for a while or being driven still?

I'm very skeptical based upon the PPI. I expect this car will need lots of work.

kjr914

Random comments from me:
Miles: 108,709
- not scary, but at a point it needs some TLC due to wear/tear
Color: Slate Gray Metallic
-Not a fan of really dark cars, however this is an awesome color
Price: $39,000
-damn....the market is crazy. I haven't been following closely, but this seems WAY over priced for the amount of deferred maintenance. I question if someone priced it by looking at current prices of other cars and neglected to consider properly condition and mileage.

oil leaks from the timing Chain covers
- standard stuff, but a little painful to fix.
Spark plug wires look to have been replaced recently
- good stuff! $450 for the wires plus install you just saved
Exhaust, as well as other parts of the car, were victim of salty sea air which has caused rust to develop on areas without protection.
-Exhaust expected to be rusty, but not sure about "other parts of the car". I'd get more detail on that.

Fan in engine compartment is unplugged - most likely because it is bad and needs to be replaced.
-did mechanic plug it back in and test it??? the plug could have not been re-hooked up properly during a prior service...minor thing. Everything works fine without it connected (for the most part. It supplies air to a hot engine after the car shuts off). However in price negotiations, use the mechanics explanation...

A/C compressor is slightly leaking
-hmmm, that could get expensive as an AC compressor isn't cheap, along with the AC testing/service you need to get this all back "right"

inner belt on the alternator has some small cracks.
-belts are easy to change and relatively cheap. I'd do that as soon as you get the car so you know when it was last done.

Transmission has a slight leak from the axle shaft seals on both sides
-Further investigation needed here. I'm not sure what it means.

shifter bushings need to be replaced to restore proper operation. CV joint Boots need to be replaced on both sides. The clutch feels good.
-standard wear/tear items. Good clutch = good stuff.

Suspension & Brakes
Suspension has been upgraded all around with Bilstein coilovers... in need of alignment ...Wheels need to be balanced.
-suspension is huge plus. get good align from 993 specific shop with kinematic toe gauge.

The brakes look good all around. There is a good amount of rust that has developed on the rotors which could have a negative affect on braking capabilities, rust may also be a challenge when it is time to replace the brake pads. At the time of inspection, the car braked ok, brake pedal is a little soft
-rusty rotors may mean its been sitting, surface rust can be ground off with some hard stops. new fluid & bleed will generally fix soft pedal

Dash board has small rip in the middle and on the passenger side, can be seen if you look down through the windshield. the gauges are a little faded by the sun. Parking brake needs to be adjusted or checked for pad wear.
-how do you rip the dash? I believe its all hard-ish plastic, not vinyl as in the old days. What else is sun faded? Leather & carpet should show fading if the gauges do...


The outside of the car has some rock chips and evidence of dent removal on the hood, ....parts of the car were repainted, but there were no obvious signs of an accident or structural damage. The seals around the door handles are falling apart, the curtain on the rear retractable wing is missing. The center reflector is brittle and beginning to crack. Rims in the back have been repainted, but not good quality, the front rims are slightly faded
-yep its a 19 year old car with 100k mi. all depends on what you want....do you want a "perfect" car or a driver.

Electronics
The factory radio does not work. Parking brake warning light does not illuminate...but the horn does not function
-nothing major to fix, but do need to be fixed.

Some repairs may be more costly because of the rust that has affected areas of the car.
-Rust is a major issue. Use this in your negotiations, if you choose to pursue. The windshield area rust is common, other not so much.


This is a good candidate car for someone who doesn't mind tinkering with the car IF the price goes down A LOT. Lots of little stuff that can be done quite easily over time. But the level of neglect is of concern...what else did they neglect....oil changes, preventative maintenance, etc?

NYC993

How was that determined that wheels need to be balanced? Are we sure some of them are not bent?

I would ask owner about oil consumption (indication of worn valve guides). He may lie or simply not know, but worth asking.

Another thing to check is if any suspension bushings were replaced. Most likely not, but that's another potential cost down the road.

How about hood and especially rear deck gas struts? They are not too expensive if you diy them.

Do oil cooling and ac fans work? Were series resistors replaced?

I'd make a list of things that need to be done and give it to the seller and ask if he thinks his price is fair. While 993 market is crazy, it's crazy for good examples or for fairly priced ones.

billapo

My 1998 Cab has 130,000 and is almost brand new compared to this one.

I would pass or knock price to $29,000.

Just my thoughts.....

Quadcammer

pass at that price

BSL

Love the color, but there are a lot of "to-dos" that will add up quickly. Seems pretty high for the work needed.