Ron

This thread is intended to be about the significance of the amounts of zinc and phosphorus in Amsoil, Brad Penn, Mobil 1 V twin , and Motul 300V Competition. All information is for each company’s 15W50, if I’m not mistaken.

I got interested in this topic as a result of talking with Steve Wiener about sending in my dual distributor for new belt and inspection. He will have it this Monday coming. Well I asked Steve what he thought about Amsoil and let’s just say he did not recommend it. His top pick for me is Motul 300 V Competition 15w50 and then the Mobil 1 V twin. Well unfortunately I had purchase a bunch of Amsoil Dominator Racing Oil 100% synthetic 15w50 weeks earlier for my yearly oil and filter change.

Anyway since zinc and phosphorus are supposed to be important for a number of reason to air cooled Porsche I compared the amount of zinc and phosphorous in the oils discussed above. Of course I realize zinc and phosphorous are not the only things that make an oil good or not so good. Below is my list with amount of zinc and phosphorus expressed as ppm.

Amsoil-zinc,1575—phosp 1425
Brad Penn,zinc 1500—phosp 1340-1400
Mobil 1 V twin, zinc--1750 phosp,1600
Motul—zinc 1330?-- phosp 1339?

For comparison Mobil 1 15W-50 has 1200 ppm phosp and 1300 ppm zinc

So two questions that comes to mind are as follows:
Is there a minimal level for zinc and phosphorus which we should stay above?
Is there a maximum level of zinc and/or phosphorus which we should stay below to avoid other issues, like CAT problems?

LexVan

1,200 and above. That's why Steve made his excellent recommendation. Dump the Amsoil and listen to Steve.

And V-Twin is on sale now at Advance Auto Part for $8.99/qt. That's $3 off.

Ron

Even the current Mobil 1 15w50 that I've always used meets that standard

LexVan

That's a very good oil. Used by many 993 and 993 Turbo owners. V-Twin is just a little better and highly recommended by those in-the-know.

Have you dumped the Amsoil yet??

Matt Lane

Disclaimer - I am not entering into, nor furthering an oil brand debate...



The oils listed above are all widely reagrded as good alternatives. I am not an alarmist and cannot see how running a single oil change interval on one or the other would make a difference - no need to Dump anything, IMHO.

As for what you choose to run prospectively, one of your considerations will be how much mileage you put on the car, and whether you do track events. As an example, the 300V is probably the best oil available - but it is a racing oil and needs to be changed much more frequently. Similar for Brad Penn, it's not synthetic, so no extended drain intervals here either. For a track car, that's not an issue since you will change based on time more than mileage. For a street car, that can get expensive in a hurry - again depending on how many miles you accumulate each year. Changing 300V once a year at 2,500 miles - sure. Changing it 4 times a year, at $20 a litre plus filters and labour, well, that's kinda crazy to me.

I chose the BP route, with an accelerated change interval of twice per summer season. For my usage (track and street) and realtively limited mileage, that made the most sense.

Good luck!

Cheers

Matt

bgiere

There is so much more to an oil than zinc and phosphorus levels…way too much for us to discuss here. Judging an oil by one or two ingredients guarantees you nothing in relation to it's ability to protect an engine…The only way to see if your lubricant choice is suitable is to do a very long series of used oil analysis tests (UOA). Oils and chemistry have moved along tremendously over the past five years…BTW, Motul does fine at regular oil change intervals, it has very high detergent levels.

Matt Lane

Hi Brant - in complete agreement.

Just a Q re. the 300V from Motul (vs. their also excellent street oils) - I remember specific used oil analyses done at less than 3K miles street use where the detergent package was essentially spent. Maybe I misread?

Reason I ask is that the variable cost on 10 litres, plus filters, plus labor (unless you do your own and enjoy it) is not insignificant. For a street car that gets decent number of miles each year, that is a real consideration.

Cheers

Matt

Matt Lane

From Motul's own lit:

"300V is not designed for extended oil change intervals, therefore it should be changed after track/race events, at 3000 miles on ultra high performance street vehicles or at 5000 miles on lower performance engines."

Consistent with the UOA I remember reading.

So back to: how many miles and how much track are you planning to do in a season? Other, non-racing synthetic oils can be run far longer.

Cheers

Matt

Matt Lane

Duplicate - deleted

Ron

Thread was and is not intended to get into a debate regarding which is the best or most protective oil. I though I stated that in the first sentence of my first post. I know it's kinda of silly to debate which is the best oil.

I asked two question in my post which are in bold. That is what I wanted to know. Maybe no one knows the answer to the questions. Maybe there is no answer.

If my questions are poorly written such that no one can understand them, I apologize.

Matt Lane

First, nobody posted above about the "best" oil, nor their various protective properties. There was some discussion about other relevant factors, in addition to the 2 isolated anti wear additives you asked about. Please disregard the info if it's not useful to you.

If you are solely interested in a safe ZDDP range, that is largely answered below. I would be particularly interested in Steve Weiner and Charles Navarro's input.

https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...ferrerid=44637

As mentioned above, that is one part of the equation.

Cheers

Matt

PAULUNM

I think there's a misconception that Motul 300V has ZDDP levels that high. The latest UOA I've seen for Motul 300V Competition shows the zinc and phosphorous just below 1100. I'm told the 5w40 and 15w50 have the same levels of additive.

I believe their formula has been changed, not sure how recently. Moly is high at ~570ppm, calcium is 2300.

These numbers are after a 3,000 mile street interval.

LexVan

Go read some of Kevin's posts in the 996 Turbo and 993 Turbo forums. You'll find your 2 answers.

ilko

FWIW I ran Brad Penn on my RSA for 2 years without changing it (about 6K miles). Did a few track days too. I sent a sample to Blackstone after the first year and they told me the oil looked good, no need to change it, so I didn't. YMMV.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

A BIG "Amen" to Brant.......thanks for posting that!!!!

We also rely on what we actually find inside engines to determine whether any given oil is doing a proper job or not. Close inspection of ring surfaces, bearings, cams, rockers, cylinder bores, crankshaft journals are just a few components that are measured for damage and/or wear.