oshkosh99

Geolab,

thanks, great info! The first brochure I did get as a copy from my Porsche Center, and I have it scanned in as pdf in German, if anyone is interested, same content however.. Would be great to also have the technical bulletins as pdf, would that be possible Geolab?

As to pricing of the 000044 items or that turbo S wheel I have had the impression, that we have to enjoy those lower prices as long as we can and the factory is not aware of them but seems to "forget" raising them every year probably due to lack of demand. Reason I am saying this is that I bought the M033 lowering kit (#000 044 500 00, stock for RoW 993 2S, to convert the 9932S I imported from the US in early 2009) complete with 4 shocks and 4 springs in early 2009 when German pricing by Porsche was a ridiculous 671,36 Euros ( for 4 springs and 4 shocks !), at a time when they were asking for the 4 springs alone 860Euros (according to my notes)! I then even bought through Porscheshop.uk for a 20% discount on that. Go figure.
However, I made the mistake of posting this along with the whole US-German conversion story on some German Porsche forums, only to see Porsche raise the M033 kit price a year later to "normal levels"; I just looked, now its listed by Porsche Germany for 1913,34 Euros...

911Pervy, I guess your prices are plus 21%VAT? The .. 500 02 number is listed in Germany for 8061,06 Euros, thats more than $10k , thats incl. German VAT of 19%.

Best regards

Oshkosh

oshkosh99

Interesting side note to the 993 Turbo S brochure:

While it is a nice broshure, someone in Germany pointed out to me, that the wheels on those pictures are not the original wheels plus they have the colored crest which seems to not have been available as option for the turbo S ?
So then I started looking close, and guess what: the "S" on the back is not the "turbo S" "S" but is the S from the 993 2S.
If you then do a google picture search for the normal 993 turbo, that very same factory picture, i.e. same pose, same registration number etc. comes up as a standard turbo, with the standard turbo script on the back without "S". So someone in marketing at Porsche seems to have done some copy and paste there. So its a "normal" turbo, albeit with twin exhaust pipes, yellow brake calipers, aerokit spoilers and the whole works.

At least in Europe there are quite a few "fake" turbo S around, and with turbo S prices probably closer to twice the prices af normal turbos this will not get less, and to prevent this, that brochure is not helping much in that regard as it makes it harder for the non-specialists to spot the differences (which is why I am writing this).

I was told even the interior of the turbo S could be ordered almost 100% for the normal turbo, and looking at the "exclusive pricelist " I have from 1996 confirms this. Few exceptions seem to have been the "turbo S" scripts in the carpets and on the carbon passenger side and door openers which one could not buy for money (?); and of course the only real assurance is type 993 780 instead of 770 , not by looking at the label but by having the VIN checked by Porsche, which I did before buying mine ...

Specialist like Geolab can point me probably to more genuine differences truly differencating a genuine S from a beefed up turbo, but this is what I came up with..
Cheers
Oshkosh

oshkosh99

stupid, double entry, how do I now remove this?

Carrera GT

Just click "edit" (icon) then there's a delete checkbox.

... aagh ... strangely, it's gone and there's no delete option in the "go advanced" edit page, either. I dunno. Things change around here from time to time, but the "edit/delete" button ... oh well.

Carrera GT

Where's the verbiage in the docs you've posted that references the seam welds or reinforcements?

Just at a quick thumb scan over the pages, I see references to the strut reinforcement, which is presumably the strut brace, but I was trying to find a reference to welds in the tub and a different part number for the tub (after all, it has them holes in its haunches ... : )

Thanks for posting all this stuff, it only adds to the remorse that I missed out of a black one, sunroof delete and rear seat delete by "this" much when a local dealer sold it to a "friend" (cough) rather than give me even a half a fair chance to pay their extortionate asking price ... yeah ... still grumbling about that one ten years later ... : )

geolab

Thanks
The strut brace in carbon is in running gear section of technical sheet (differences with turbo)
The strut dome reinforcements is in body section of Technical sheet.
Weldable dome reinforcements are in part list

Carrera GT

I found one reference to reinforcement, parts 965 501 739 00 & 740 00 -- is that meant to be left and right plates? Maybe 993 343 90 01. Bottom line is you're saying there are shared part numbers from the tub of the 993 RS.

I remember discussing this when I saw an artic silver turbo s, high mile car had been driven hard and put up wet for years in LA. Side by side with a C4S and a regular Turbo, the famed seam welds were not visible around front or rear struts (just by lifting the carpet and peering with a flash light under the intercooler.) I think it was the cumulative chit chat of people trying to "eyeball" these "legendary" differences in the Turbo S that lead to the "myth" status. A pinch weld versus a seam weld is visible no matter the overlay and paint. It would be great to get some pics of those seam welds or more explicit doc to reference the tub upgrades.

Separately, it's fascinating to see the whole Turbo S feature set was available as a kit. It was "talk to the hand" if you tried to do this to a turbo in California. Still, I know of one that was "allegedly" converted in this way (though without documentation other than some before/after photos to prove the "donor" turbo was not a wrecked or crashed vehicle.)

Quite amazing to think of the dollars thrown into such a project for a net 25hp! It makes the modern day power kits quite the bargain!

Dollar for dollar, I'd still get the 993RS. : )

oshkosh99

Hi,
not really able to tell all the differences, it seems to me that the turbo S suspension might have more in common with the GT2 or the RS suspension than with the turbo? (Apart from 4 wheel drive of course, but think about stiffness, springs, dampers, stud braces etc.)

So could someone explain in understandable words the suspension differences if any between RS, GT2 and turbo S.
obvious: GT2 has same engine as turbo S; RS and GT2 have both RWD and are considerably lightened up. GT2 of course has wider arches to accomodate wider rims and easier fixes after a fly off, but suspension wise?
Is suspension pretty similar? All seem to have beefed up strut reinforcements, low ride height, uniball, I think geolab mentioned somewhere same (hard) dampers between RS and turbo S...

Am I right if I get the impression that the S was just a more comfy GT2 with total leather passenger wrapping, all exclusive options and 4-wheel drive, while the GT2 was essentially the same but a lot more bare bone, RWD only and thus GT2 homologation able?

Thanks

H.H.Chinn

This is a plethora of great information! There is someone that drives a silver TurboS around downtown Seattle, there was no mistake what I was hearing and seeing as it drove past as I was walking!

Carlos993

Oshkosh,

As detailed by Christian - Rennnlister -CD- in another thread, the differences between Turbo and GT2 is listed below. You can read through to parse the differences against Turbo S:


Engine:

993tt M64/60 3.6 Liter 408, WLS I 430 und WLS II 450 PS

993 GT2 M64/60 R 3.6 Liter 430 PS und 450 PS WLS + Evo over 600 PS race versions

-both with 5.2 Motronic

-boostpressure tt 0.8 bar GT2 0.9 bar

-belt drive at crank tripple version tt and single version GT2
-belt drive at generator dual version tt and single version GT2

transmission:

993tt G64/51 6-speed with all wheel drive

993 GT2 G50/53 6-speed with rear wheel drive and G50/54 6-speed with rear wheel drive for the race version

-double mass flywheel tt and GT2

-diff tt locking at 22-40% and GT2 locking 40-65%


brakes:

993tt 322mm drilled, front and rear and GT2 330mm drilles, front and rear

-tt ABS and ABD Bosch 5 System and basic ABS GT2


steering:

-both powersteering, but GT2 with higher ratio


weight and heigt:

993tt 1285mm and 1500 Kg, GT2 1270mm and 1290 Kg


wheels:

993tt 8x18 and 10x18 Alu hollow spokes

993 GT2 9x18 and 11x18 3-part Speedline with Magnesium spokes


suspension:

993tt Stabi front 21mm and Stabi rear 18mm, not adjustable

993 GT2 Stabi front 22mm 5-way adjustable and Stabi rear 21mm 3-way adjustable

993 tt Boge and GT2 Bilstein

993tt without strutbrace and GT2 with strutbrace

-GT2 with Evo uprights and harder tie rods

-adjustable uniball struts


body:

-993tt spot wedled and GT2 seam welded

-adjustable rearspolier GT2

-rollbar GT2 optional (Matter)

-frontlid GT2 Alu with 993 RS Alu support

-doors GT2 Alu

-brakespoiler GT2 optional

-thinner glass GT2

-tank 77 litre tt (92 Liter optional) and 92 litre GT2

-seats RS Recaro seats or sport/comforts sets GT2

-back seat delete GT2

-RS door panels GT2


electronic:

-993tt 74 Ah battery und 36 Ah GT2

-power windows tt and optional GT2

-immobiliser and alarm system tt and optional GT2

-no central locking GT2

-no foglights GT2 (if my mind don´t play tricks on me)

-small washer tank GT2

-outside/mirrors GT2 manual

-airbag GT2 optional

-battery switch GT2

-no airbags



Greetings Christian
__________________

Carlos993

Curiously, the list does not include the riveted front and rear fenders, which are the most visually aggressive feature of the GT2.

oshkosh99

Carlos993,

thanks good info.

So back to the pure suspension question, between GT2 and turbo S:

same ride height, both carry a strutbrace, both have uniball suspension.
Both seem to have a reinforced chassis at the strut.
Really don't know if my turbo s has adjustable stabilizers, how would i tell?
And what color or code would the bilsteins have so I could tell?

Thanks

Carrera GT

The GT2 is a lower ride height.
There's not a lot of spherical joint suspension in either. Zero, I think.
I'm still not clear on the reinforced chassis at the strut, but some photos would be interesting. I'm guessing it's a half moon plate under the stamped metal.
Adjustable "stabilizers" would be the anti-roll bars, which would have three holes at the end of the bar arms (hanging below the control arms, near the tires) and maybe five holes in the fronts. Though I'm not sure what factory model years had these "RS" bars.
Color, I dunno, yellow would make sense. Boge is green, but I don't know for sure that green means it's not Bilstein. Helpful, I know! : )

oshkosh99

ok, looks yellow to me , and as to green all I know is that my C2S has the factory original Monroes, and they are green...

And here two pics of the suspension around the front strut, does not look to me as if there was anything extra welded in, only an extra milled aluminium plate I guess for alignment, that is missing on my 2S. Maybe extra welds in the back, cant get to that at present though.

Carrera GT

That's Polar Silver Metallic?

The visible features of the body, pinch welds, joint compound, are all standard (for the 4S/Turbo tub) except the camber plate and the top screw, which doesn't ring a bell. The coil-over design is basically the same but could be a little different in the body and spring diameter. There's witness marks on the fasteners, so it could all have been updated years ago, but it all looks basically factory except the mount for the (missing) strut brace looks a little different. These photos just make me want to get out for a drive!