Fox 3

I put the Bilstein HDs, M030 sway bar, Schnell strut brace 1 1/2 years before I put on the Walrod bushings. The bushings made my car feel much more stable so they alone make a huge difference. There's no coincidental improvement. They really are needed to make the car handle the way it is supposed to.

Mark
'98 C4 Cab

Cactus

Walrod bushing....never ever one single negative comment = no brainer.

gonzilla

That someone was me. And are all manufacturers dumb? Probably. In certain instances, yeah. Just like you and me and the rest of the world. I think the high failure rate of this particular bushing in the low-mileage that many of us have seen them fail sort of makes it a no-brainer. Bad design in my book. If their intention was to have the bushings go inside of 30K miles, then I guess it was a good design and I'm totally off-base. But I'm not a bushing designer, so what do I know.

You're right, they aren't vulcanized. I remembered it wrong. I guess all the time with a torch and gooey melted rubber when I removed them clouded my memory. Getting them out was a test of will. They obviously weren't designed to be replaced as a wear item.

And just because it's "common" doesn't necessarily mean it's "good."

Well, again, as only a regular driver guy who has seen a good number of them tear on cars with anywhere from 50K - 75K miles, I'm still saying it's a dumb design. But again, I'm not a bushing expert, nor any other kind of expert, so what do I know? As for yours having 135K miles on them and looking like new... Seriously? They look new? Do you only drive on glass roads? Have you done the pry-bar test to check for tears??? I haven't been able too see them unless the bushing is flexed to see the tears around the oval cutouts. Otherwise, yeah, they usually look new.

Again, have you tried this? What a PITA. Not difficult, but just needlessly time consuming. Porsche certainly doesn't make it very easy to replace the bushing. Try getting that bushing sleeve out without carefully cutting through it and even then, you gotta use a punch or a chisel or something to chip away at it and get it out.

As for aftermarket vs. OEM, I have no idea why you'd opt to have a bushing with cutouts in it in a metal sleeve that's probably not super fun to try and fit into the arm, as opposed to having a solid PU bushing that won't tear and is easily removable if you have to replace it. But again, I'm not a bushing expert, nor any other kind of expert, so what do I know?

Is it just the idea that you want to keep the car as the factory "intended," as opposed to using something "aftermarket?" Or do you just have issues with PU bushings? Honestly, I'm just curious.

IXLR8

True but they do need to provide a level of service to keep customers happy.


Well there is zero indication of them separating from the metal sleeves and the rubber isn't cracked. I replaced my upper A arm; the ball joint was gone...the rubber bushings were fine.

Glass roads? With our winters and frost heave, I wish. Hey, its a Honda!

Not yet, but I have no doubt I'll get them out without marking my control arms. Right now I am trying to get my clutch kinematic lever off. A bigger hammer and punch would work but I hate marking up things even if I can't see them.

Cut-outs? I take it you mean for grease.

Rubber bushings do not rotate in the control arm or on the bolts, therefore no grease is needed. They are fixed and what flexes is the rubber bushing. The bolts for them are tightened down with the vehicle on the ground so that the rubber isn't pre-loaded torsionally. Pretty robust...in fact that system is also used in utility trailers in place of leaf springs.

Neil posted on this thread. They pressed in easily.

Why change what works. Bill Verburg listed some very informative stuff discussing the rubber bushings used on the RS and their similarity to the Elephant Racing Sport hardness bushings (I asked). Its on the Available Control Arm Bushings thread.

I don't have issues with PU bushings, but I prefer the ER OEM style bushings. I know they cost a bit more. If cost were an issue, I'd buy a VW Golf TDI for the mileage.

gonzilla

If I remember correctly, the bushing itself does not rotate, which, in my caveman mind is the problem. Again, if I remember correctly, the outside of the bushing does rotate relative to the inside of the bushing. Maybe we're saying the same thing. With the cutouts in the bushing, this is obviously going to be a weak point in the bushing after a certain amount of time.

As for if the OEM bushings are easy to put in, I'm sure they're easier to get in than to get out.

The cutouts I'm talking about are seen here:


Elephant Racing's are the same with the cutouts.

1pcarnut

I've had my current car almost 2 years. Got it with 46k mi and the bushings were shot, bad wobble. New Walrod bushings cured the shimmy nicely and gave a very nice improvement in steering feel. A very cost effective mod.

Arena993

Another vote for Walrod Bushings. I had the classic shimmy at 45 mph, bought them loaded from Chris, installed, aligned the car and have had many miles of smiles. Just because Porsche made it doesn't mean it can't be improved. The original shocks come to mind.

Mike

Neil Perry

Hi
With the Elephant Bushes, the metal sleves do not move the rubber is attached to the inner and outer metal bush.
The rubber twists/distorts inside the metal bushes.
The bushes have a spline on them and push into the control arms.
And again, I state, they are very easy to fit, plus the Elephant bushes do not have to be tightened with the car on the ground, as there is a nipple that sticks out, a location niple that aligns the control arm in the correct position.
This is to stop pre-load on the control arm.
As with the rubber bushes there has to be zero tension/twist on the rubber when the car is sitting at rest.

Yes this is the same concept of trailer suspension.
I had a go kart trailer with this type of rubber bush suspension, it did many thousands of Kilometers and all was good, actually it was very tight.

Thanks,

camlob

So this thread made me order a set of walrod bushings. So cheap that I wonder why I didnt do it earlier? Maybe this thread helped

Darren/Mark, I sent you an email

Paul

Deadeye

I have a set of front A arms I took off my car with stock 80k mile bushes for sale ($300) I bought a used pair and pre installed Walrod bushings into the arms (the hard part) ahead of time. No more wobble at 50 mph

Toto111

This thread has certainly made interesting reading with strong opinions from each side of the fence. There is no doubt that the Walrod bushes have been very well accepted by both owners and independent shops. They have become quite a success and there are obviously many satisfied customers.

On the other hand there are those who prefer the traditional rubber bushings and are quite satisfied with their performance.

Everyone of course is entitled to their opinion. As I don't quite own a 993 as yet I will not enter into the debate apart from suggesting that the only way the debate can be resolved is to do a back to back comparison on the same car.

Take a 993 with some really shot bushes, replace with one type and thoroughly test drive. Then do the same with the other set. Ideally have two identical cars with a set in each. Drive them identically and assess over the next 40k miles or so!

Hmm...looks like it's easier to continue the debate.

993James993

In discussing my suspension upgrade with a long time porsche mechanic I mentioned that I would like to replace the old bushings with polyurathane ones that came highly recommended on Rennlist. The mechanic immeadiately objected stating that polyurethane was a bad choice. I mention this only because there are people with strong opinions. I'm still considering Walrod bushings.

IXLR8

Are you referring to the OEM bushing? If so...

Sure the bushing rotates or flexes, but all of it is in the rubber. The outer metal tube of the OEM bsuhing is fixed/pressed into the control arm and the inner metal tube is fixed to the frame of the car once the bolt is tightened down; it does not rotate on the bolt. Thats how all bushings of this type work as far as I have seen on various cars I've had.


In any case, whatever bushings are used, it takes the same effort to remove them.

Exactly!

Those molded-into-the-rubber cavities in those bushings is pretty standard for bushings that have torsional loads placed on them. The bushings in lower shock absorber eyes are usually solid in comparison.

The long slits or grooves (cut-outs) in the PU bushings are there to retain grease which is needed since the bushings actually rotate on the mounting bolt. That isn't the case or needed with the bushings you've shown in the pics above. Note that the angle rotated through is quite small and a function of control arm length and suspension travel.

One has to wonder why Porsche didn't opt to use PU bushings since they are cheaper and according to many here, better.

As far as cost is concerned, the extra say $180 for the ER bushings will be worth it to me. After all, if these are being replaced on a whim, the cost is unnecessary to start with, so why even discuss cost if that is the case.

IXLR8

Yes, I noticed that from pics of the bushing hats that I have seen. They have that locating key cast/machined into them.

AOW162435

Nor do the Walrod bushings. Anyone that has removed the stock bushings and replaced them with polyurethane bushings knows that the inner steel sleeve - with the locating nub - is reused.

I have rebuilt at least 12 sets of 993 control arms (pics show how they look when they leave my shop) for other Rennlist members (using Walrod bushings) and think they are a fantastic alternative to either pressing in a new set of factory-style bushings, or purchasing a new set of control arms.

And I also think it's great that ERP offers their factory-style bushings.










Andreas