100% plug'n'play aftermarket ECU for our cars for under $1000
01-06-2012, 12:22 AM
#37
Race Car
I'm interested. Would also be curious to hear from experienced engine software guys what exactly the benefits are of an entirely new ECU (it's not Motec -- so what kind is it?) versus programming a chip. For example, I sourced a '97 ECU for my '96 993 that I'm planning to use for when I freshen up the motor and do RS cams or 9M top end. Are there limitations to the flash-able Motronic ECU that don't exist with a different, more modern, computer?
I guess the question really is -- Is the benefit of an aftermarket ECU simply the fact that it's programmable while the stock ECU is not, or is it that the programming resolution for fuel/ignition maps is superior to stock?
I guess the question really is -- Is the benefit of an aftermarket ECU simply the fact that it's programmable while the stock ECU is not, or is it that the programming resolution for fuel/ignition maps is superior to stock?
An aftermarket system allows a number benefits, especially when you are changing the volumetric efficiency of the engine (via cams, displacement etc)
The Motronic is a very good system, however when it comes to major modifications it just cannot manage the fuel requirements (cannot manage bigger injectors etc), nor can you make major adjustments to ignition timing etc to take advantage of cams etc.
There are a number of us on Rennlist that have recently installed an aftermarket system in their cars, including myself.
Juha, If you need any help or support, drop me a line, I did the full install on my system (55pin) and built the loom. I am also very willing to help anyone else out that goes down this path, whether it is with Juha's friends offering or any other system...
01-06-2012, 05:13 AM
#39
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I'm interested. Would also be curious to hear from experienced engine software guys what exactly the benefits are of an entirely new ECU (it's not Motec -- so what kind is it?) versus programming a chip. For example, I sourced a '97 ECU for my '96 993 that I'm planning to use for when I freshen up the motor and do RS cams or 9M top end. Are there limitations to the flash-able Motronic ECU that don't exist with a different, more modern, computer?
I guess the question really is -- Is the benefit of an aftermarket ECU simply the fact that it's programmable while the stock ECU is not, or is it that the programming resolution for fuel/ignition maps is superior to stock?
I guess the question really is -- Is the benefit of an aftermarket ECU simply the fact that it's programmable while the stock ECU is not, or is it that the programming resolution for fuel/ignition maps is superior to stock?
Don't forget the Motronic in our cars is almost 20 year old technology, look at how the PC has evolved over the past 20 years....
An aftermarket system allows a number benefits, especially when you are changing the volumetric efficiency of the engine (via cams, displacement etc)
The Motronic is a very good system, however when it comes to major modifications it just cannot manage the fuel requirements (cannot manage bigger injectors etc), nor can you make major adjustments to ignition timing etc to take advantage of cams etc.
There are a number of us on Rennlist that have recently installed an aftermarket system in their cars, including myself.
Juha, If you need any help or support, drop me a line, I did the full install on my system (55pin) and built the loom. I am also very willing to help anyone else out that goes down this path, whether it is with Juha's friends offering or any other system...
An aftermarket system allows a number benefits, especially when you are changing the volumetric efficiency of the engine (via cams, displacement etc)
The Motronic is a very good system, however when it comes to major modifications it just cannot manage the fuel requirements (cannot manage bigger injectors etc), nor can you make major adjustments to ignition timing etc to take advantage of cams etc.
There are a number of us on Rennlist that have recently installed an aftermarket system in their cars, including myself.
Juha, If you need any help or support, drop me a line, I did the full install on my system (55pin) and built the loom. I am also very willing to help anyone else out that goes down this path, whether it is with Juha's friends offering or any other system...
The older (95 cars) motronic that uses the 55-pin is almost identical to the 5.2 motronic used on the later 993's. It is just missing some things like the VR control etc.
01-06-2012, 11:33 AM
#41
Race Car
I don't think this ECU will be much superior to the original Motronic unit. The real benefit is the ease of working on it; just plug it in and tune on the fly (while driving or on dyno). This is not possible on the Motronic.
The older (95 cars) motronic that uses the 55-pin is almost identical to the 5.2 motronic used on the later 993's. It is just missing some things like the VR control etc.
The older (95 cars) motronic that uses the 55-pin is almost identical to the 5.2 motronic used on the later 993's. It is just missing some things like the VR control etc.
Funnily enough the extra pins from the 55 to the 88 really cover such things as the extra 3 o2 sensors, and additional output for OBDII, the Varioram is controlled by nothing much more that what controls the resonance flap in the 95 cars.
Great project Juha... Looking forward to the results.
01-06-2012, 12:19 PM
#42
Nordschleife Master
Totally in for this! I have been wanting to mess with the ECU for some time.
How will this work with the immobilizer? Will all the warning light still work? Like the CEL light for emissions? Will all engine sensors be stock or will you upgrade to a WB02?
I have been tinkering with doing a piggyback ECU for the C4S. It retains everything 100% stock, & can custom tune any engine for about $1500 installed & tuned.
How will this work with the immobilizer? Will all the warning light still work? Like the CEL light for emissions? Will all engine sensors be stock or will you upgrade to a WB02?
I have been tinkering with doing a piggyback ECU for the C4S. It retains everything 100% stock, & can custom tune any engine for about $1500 installed & tuned.
01-06-2012, 12:56 PM
#43
"He said once he finalizes the engineering on it he can build and sell them for less than $1000. It would be a 100% plug'n'play ECU that you can tune on any PC."
OK, so he'll out-do Motec, Bosch, & et al, given all their development capacity
and other resources. Got it!
Before all this hype, it might be appropriate to inform members of some of his
actual completed electronic automotive developments, e.g. write-ups, pictures,
installs, & etc. It's one thing to easily develop and produce a simple circuit to
fool the 993 SAI system for OBDII monitors, and another to develop, fully test
under all operating conditions, package, and then market a highly reliable ECM.
Bottom line: An ECM development & production is not now made very simple,
i.e. requiring less resources, in 2012 versus the late '80s (Bosch 993 development),
because we now have quad core and dual core RISC microprocessors as is the
implication of some posts. The microprocessor used the 993 DME 20 years ago
is more than adequate for any ECM design requirement today.
OK, so he'll out-do Motec, Bosch, & et al, given all their development capacity
and other resources. Got it!
Before all this hype, it might be appropriate to inform members of some of his
actual completed electronic automotive developments, e.g. write-ups, pictures,
installs, & etc. It's one thing to easily develop and produce a simple circuit to
fool the 993 SAI system for OBDII monitors, and another to develop, fully test
under all operating conditions, package, and then market a highly reliable ECM.
Bottom line: An ECM development & production is not now made very simple,
i.e. requiring less resources, in 2012 versus the late '80s (Bosch 993 development),
because we now have quad core and dual core RISC microprocessors as is the
implication of some posts. The microprocessor used the 993 DME 20 years ago
is more than adequate for any ECM design requirement today.
