PCar SBA

I am posting this here because I know there are lots of folks here very active with the scantool and other diagnostics equipment. So I thought you might enjoy my latest project:

This unit actually started life as the generic Bosch KTS 500. It is more or less hardware compatible to the Porsche PST2. Unfortunately, the Porsche version commands a rather hefty Porsche-tax if you are trying to buy used. I saw the last one going on Evil bay for 3200$. That was a little steep so I got the Bosch version with the goal to convert it. After some tweaks I was ready to try it on the cars.

The bad news first: I was trying to read the DME on the 964 3.6 in my Targa. This should have been a pretty straight forward task. Plug the 8-pin AMP connector that goes into the Hamer into the short Bosch adapter and that goes into the PST2. However, despite numerous tries the PST2 did not find the DME. What a bummer. I think I have to chase the signals and check if something is mis-wired. Wired, the Hammer still finds the DME just fine. Maybe it is not as demanding and does not need the L-line. We will see.

The good news: Out of sheer frustration I went ahead and hooked the KTS 500 cable up to the 996 C4. And surprise surprise the PST2 found the DME. I knew at the time that the standard Bosch-OBD2 cable is different from the Porsche version. So with new-found inspiration I went ahead and converted the cable to Porsche specificatons. And that lead to full success. See for yourself.

First, the PST2 scans the vehicle and highlights all control units found in the car. For the C4 coupe it found the PSM and all other moduls expected. The "#" in front of a unit means there are stored fault codes:



Well, the faults are because the battery died on me. Maybe I need to drive the car more often. So the POSIP complained and so did the alarm unit if it can't lock/unlock the doors or move the windows. So I went ahead and erased the faults:



And voila, the next scan comes up clean. No more fault codes. So my first little job has been completed successfully:



What's left to be done is to figure out why the tester does not find the DME on my 3.6 conversion while my Hammer (KTS301) finds it. FYI, I made my own custom diagnostics port and a cable that has a custom connector on one end and the standard 8-pin AMP connector going into the Hammer on the other end. I used that same cable with the PST2 but it won't find the DME. Grrrr... My guess at this point is that the Hammer is less sensitive/demanding - maybe my L-line is not coming to the interface correctly and the Hammer doesn't need it to function while the PST2 does.

Cheers,
Ingo

gonzilla

Sweet!!! I am jealous.

So can I ask... How much of a premium is the PST2 compared to the KTS500? And did you find that the KTS500 as hard to come by as the PST2???

Glen Watkins

A little OT, but I came across this company when searching for KTS 500: http://www.durametric.com/ Has anyone here tried their product?

Analog Theory

Nice work...can I ask what this solution cost?

Lorenfb

"can I ask what this solution cost?"

Do an eBay search (Porsche PST2), as they are sold occasionally as
are the various pieces, e.g. cables, cards, etc. They're (clones) also sold
running on a generic laptop too.

PCar SBA

Here is what I found surveying the market: A generic Bosch KTS 500 runs anywhere between 800 to 1000 Euro on Ebay Germany depending on how complete the units is. A generic KTS PCMCIA multiplexer card (KTS400 or KTS401) is anywhere between 250 - 400 Euro again depending on what comes with it and what type of card it is. Bosch made two different versions. The later version can handle the SAE protocol in addition to the ISO protocol. A Porsche PCMCIA multiplexer card is much more if one ever shows up used. I saw one for 1000 Euro once but they are very very rare.

I wonder if Bosch didn't market the KTS 500 here in the U.S. - that is the only explanation I have for why you don't see them here coming up as used items. While they were mostly geared to the European cars it still seems odd though. Maybe someone else can chime in here.

Then there are the laptops (clones). Watch out - some are just that, an old laptop with nothing else but the Bosch software and they are 500 Euro, ouch. Others come with the KTS500 card and cables and Bosch software installed. By the way the Bosch ESItronic software for KTS 500 requires a subsription to make it run. Some say there is a final version out there that does not expire. I on't know if that is the case or not.

Other laptops come with the PCMCIA card, cable and Porsche SW installed. These clones are going anywhere from 800 Euro to 1600 Euro. And last but not least there is a guy from Italy who is offering a KTS 500 with Porsche software installed for 1600 Euros. That about sums it up. But let me tell you, the Euro/US$ exchange rate doesn't make Ebay Germany a very attractive place these days...

Oh, and the last real PST2 went on Ebay US for 3200$ about a month ago. From what I have heard that has been the going price for quite some time now.

Currently, Porsche dealerships are using a newer system called PIWIS but there are rumors that an even newer system is about to come out replacing the PIWIS. PIWIS and the newer systems are working on a subscripton basis. You need an account with Porsche and have to pay anual royalties for receiving updates.

Cheers,
Ingo

Analog Theory

Thanks. Pretty much as expected. Our PST2 (laptop version) was around $2500 and it worked flawlessly (we sold it for that same amount when we closed last summer). I've seen other bootleg solution and even some internet cipher's to crack the latest PIWIS in the same range but not this setup...I like it.

- Jordan

PCar SBA

Do a search for durametric. There is quite a bit of information here on the board. In summary it seems to work well for the money and does most of what the Porsche testers do. That being said some essential functions such as actuating the ABD pumps are missing. But they seem to be very active in adding support for newer cars.

geolab

I HATE THIS THREAD, but uhhhhh

-The new porsche tester is already out succeeding the PIWIS, it was ready in march08.
-The PIWIS is nothing more than a bosch ..................in a fancy box with a touch screen. (and yes I will erase this post in a few days)
-This is why the ......... will always be expensive on bay, the few who know this information (bosch personnel I heard) are buying them to convert them to piwis on a laptop since 2004, and porsche AG knows.
Piwis can read cayman - 997, PST2 cannot.
PST2 on a laptop originally is not bootleg, all porsche motorsport team on race tracks had the laptop toshiba version.

Now for Ingo, buying a KTS 500 or PST2 or whatever for erasing codes and doing small stuff is totally mad.
WHILE YOU ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WIRING, DID YOU KNOW THAT YOU HAVE A FUNCTION TO TRIGGER THE AIRBAGS???
An accident like this if you're on the front seat and we will find you near the ISV...
I met a 964 owner killing himself to get one, but when I told him what he was paying for on ebay,
was 15% the price of his car, he changed his mind.
I strongly do not recommend any p-car owner to buy this stuff.
This is a good alternative to p-mechanics but for individuals
If you do all the work on your car, and you want to keep the car for good, and money is no issue, then its another story.....

Bill Verburg

There is a KTS500 on German E-bay,
KTS500

PCar SBA

Geolab,
what is your issue? Are you the same guy that asked me for a KTS301 module a while back? Then you said in another thread that you tried everything to get a PST2 clone to work but failed. You then claimed it burns out control modules and in the end paid lots of money to finally buy the real thing.....

The current Bosch KTS series is a box (multiplexer) that connects to a PC via USB. It is Bosch's generic solution for newer cars. There are different versions (KTS520, KTS530, KTS540, KTS570) that have different feature sets such as digital oscilloscope, DVM, etc.

BTW, The fancy box is actually called KTS650 and is a handheld tablet PC running Wiindows 95 and Bosch ESItronic. Same as before, there is the generic Bosch version (KTS650) and the Porsche version (PIWIS). The difference is software. Both support CAN bus for newer cars (997, etc.)

And then you call me "totally mad" for buying this for "just to delete codes and doing small stuff" Sounds to me you are just mad that you didn't figure things out, huh?

Analog Theory

"PST2 on a laptop originally is not bootleg, all porsche motorsport team on race tracks had the laptop toshiba version."

...our relationship with Porsche Motorsports is exactly how we got ours (Toshiba version). I also agree that given the modifying capabilities of these units, I wouldn't recommend putting the fully functional version in the hands of the average DIY Porsche owner.

PCar SBA

Jordan, I agree that you certainly can do damage with these units. And if someone is not familiar with the concept of embedded systems, it can lead to costly mistakes. I am not advertising that everyone should go ahead and start playing with these. I merely wanted to share what I did.

As for myself I mostly do my own work on my cars and friends cars. I did the 3.6 conversion for the 74 Targa without any Timmes kit or stuff like that myself way back then before it became popular. Next, with the help of a good friend I had to rebuild the 3.6 in my garage and it’s been running fine for 20,000 miles since. And still, I consider myself an average DIYer: If I don't know how to do stuff I ask questions first and then figure it out. Learning is fun.

In the process I started to "play" with Porsche electronics. Stuff like CDI boxes, Motronic, etc. A couple of years ago I made my own "Hammer" to be able to work on the 3.6 more efficiently and now I finished the PST2 to work on the C4 if it ever becomes necessary.

geolab

Wrong...You are confused with someone else. I do have the PST2 since january 2000 with papers, so never needed to neither clone it or whatever module you are talking about

Wrong....you seem to be calling everything multiplexer and connects to a pc thru USB.
The Bosch KTS series today is the 650. The 650 core is a .........................., The multiplexer is a circuit box with cables from both sides and it is dark grey in color, not the green one. And there is nooo USB cable whatsoever on Bosch KTS

Wrong.... the windows system is XP and between XP and 95 there was 98 and 2000, and for the PIWIS it is proprietary VAUDIA.



Wrong...when I have since long the thing itself, what things should I figure out?

Peculiar thing is that you start your thread asking for help, and now you brag you know everything, I have seen small boys do that here, but swifly vanished.

Point to signal: You are in need of the schematics to sort out your problem now,
I do have the information, and you will not have it.

What a gentleman you are, I advise you to take care because you could trigger the
airbag with your guessing and really hurt yourself, and you revolt?

I did not point to anybody and treated him as mad. It is a hasty generalisation, but
I suppose you've never been to school to understand.
adieu

PCar SBA

Really, here is your Private Messge dated 06-02-2006 titled KTS300
You seem to have an attitude problem AND altzheimers bad combination if you ask me.....