Factory speaker size in 993..two way...yes, I searched
03-01-2007, 12:54 PM
#32
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In regard to the impedance issue with speakers/amp, let me say this.
I have built custom guitar amps for about 10 years now. I don't know if you saw my pic but it was a concert pic-I tour as a semi professional musician as well.
Anyway, there have been LOADS of talk about impedance matching and one can get REALLY lost in it-especially from a high end-and I am talking 100k systems here.
Impedance matching ONLY means that you will have, if ALL other factors are considered and resolved i.e. perfect signal, component perfection IDEAL power output from the amp.
Now, mismatching impedance can run anywhere from a sound you want (as in a guitar amp's harmonic distortion) to frying your amp if it is run at VERY high volumes for a VERY long time. Now, these issues were LARGELY related to tube driven impedances correlating with output tranny impedances/speaker loads.
Now, small impedance mismatch in current, solid state mossfet driven systems are really not that concerning in terms of product reliability i.e. burning up the power section. Running 2 ohms into an amp that states it's specs in 4 ohm levels is really of little concern to me or someone who plays their music for maybe 2 hours at a time at no more than 50% of the amp's rated output. Mismatch at this level i.e. 2/4 ohm match will have a slight effect on quality of signal and bass output BUT it is so minor that most would not even know.
A large mismatch? Well, take into consideration that your stock speakers were loaded at what...12ohms in the rear and probably four in the front ( : I don't know for sure and I could be wrong but I doubt the stock amp had two power boards-one for each load. Moreover, most that replace the rear deck speakers do so with 4 ohm loads. They say they hear an increase in volume and clarity. Well of course, beacause the power section of the amp is running at more optimum levels therefore producing a better, clearer output of the frequencies. How long did it run that way? Probably a long time for most 993's with 0 amp failure.
Anyway, I am no car audio expert BUT sonic relations whethere it be home, music or car should be the same in concept. I know guitar amps very well so that is the basis of my lack of concern for the impedance mismatch and my comments.
By the way and a note, most new amps are spec'ng at 4 ohm loads. I think the reason the speakers are touting 2 ohm loads is to correlate with higher volumes AND more easily pushed speakers.
As long as they are close, most if not 99% of ears would never know what is going on. And that 1%, they are pushing their amps to the extreme and require EVERY detail of sonic matching to occur.
I have built custom guitar amps for about 10 years now. I don't know if you saw my pic but it was a concert pic-I tour as a semi professional musician as well.
Anyway, there have been LOADS of talk about impedance matching and one can get REALLY lost in it-especially from a high end-and I am talking 100k systems here.
Impedance matching ONLY means that you will have, if ALL other factors are considered and resolved i.e. perfect signal, component perfection IDEAL power output from the amp.
Now, mismatching impedance can run anywhere from a sound you want (as in a guitar amp's harmonic distortion) to frying your amp if it is run at VERY high volumes for a VERY long time. Now, these issues were LARGELY related to tube driven impedances correlating with output tranny impedances/speaker loads.
Now, small impedance mismatch in current, solid state mossfet driven systems are really not that concerning in terms of product reliability i.e. burning up the power section. Running 2 ohms into an amp that states it's specs in 4 ohm levels is really of little concern to me or someone who plays their music for maybe 2 hours at a time at no more than 50% of the amp's rated output. Mismatch at this level i.e. 2/4 ohm match will have a slight effect on quality of signal and bass output BUT it is so minor that most would not even know.
A large mismatch? Well, take into consideration that your stock speakers were loaded at what...12ohms in the rear and probably four in the front ( : I don't know for sure and I could be wrong but I doubt the stock amp had two power boards-one for each load. Moreover, most that replace the rear deck speakers do so with 4 ohm loads. They say they hear an increase in volume and clarity. Well of course, beacause the power section of the amp is running at more optimum levels therefore producing a better, clearer output of the frequencies. How long did it run that way? Probably a long time for most 993's with 0 amp failure.
Anyway, I am no car audio expert BUT sonic relations whethere it be home, music or car should be the same in concept. I know guitar amps very well so that is the basis of my lack of concern for the impedance mismatch and my comments.
By the way and a note, most new amps are spec'ng at 4 ohm loads. I think the reason the speakers are touting 2 ohm loads is to correlate with higher volumes AND more easily pushed speakers.
As long as they are close, most if not 99% of ears would never know what is going on. And that 1%, they are pushing their amps to the extreme and require EVERY detail of sonic matching to occur.
03-01-2007, 02:43 PM
#33
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I was able to replace the factory 5.5" Nokia paper speakers with 6.5" Pioneer Aramid component speakers with a little little refiting. If I remember it right, the factory 5.5 sits on an plastic mold adaptor. If you remove the adaptor you could mount a 6.5 directly on the door panel.
03-01-2007, 03:05 PM
#34
Race Director
Originally Posted by Jukelemon
In regard to the impedance issue with speakers/amp, let me say this.
I have built custom guitar amps for about 10 years now. I don't know if you saw my pic but it was a concert pic-I tour as a semi professional musician as well.
Anyway, there have been LOADS of talk about impedance matching and one can get REALLY lost in it-especially from a high end-and I am talking 100k systems here.
Impedance matching ONLY means that you will have, if ALL other factors are considered and resolved i.e. perfect signal, component perfection IDEAL power output from the amp.
Now, mismatching impedance can run anywhere from a sound you want (as in a guitar amp's harmonic distortion) to frying your amp if it is run at VERY high volumes for a VERY long time. Now, these issues were LARGELY related to tube driven impedances correlating with output tranny impedances/speaker loads.
Now, small impedance mismatch in current, solid state mossfet driven systems are really not that concerning in terms of product reliability i.e. burning up the power section. Running 2 ohms into an amp that states it's specs in 4 ohm levels is really of little concern to me or someone who plays their music for maybe 2 hours at a time at no more than 50% of the amp's rated output. Mismatch at this level i.e. 2/4 ohm match will have a slight effect on quality of signal and bass output BUT it is so minor that most would not even know.
A large mismatch? Well, take into consideration that your stock speakers were loaded at what...12ohms in the rear and probably four in the front ( : I don't know for sure and I could be wrong but I doubt the stock amp had two power boards-one for each load. Moreover, most that replace the rear deck speakers do so with 4 ohm loads. They say they hear an increase in volume and clarity. Well of course, beacause the power section of the amp is running at more optimum levels therefore producing a better, clearer output of the frequencies. How long did it run that way? Probably a long time for most 993's with 0 amp failure.
Anyway, I am no car audio expert BUT sonic relations whethere it be home, music or car should be the same in concept. I know guitar amps very well so that is the basis of my lack of concern for the impedance mismatch and my comments.
By the way and a note, most new amps are spec'ng at 4 ohm loads. I think the reason the speakers are touting 2 ohm loads is to correlate with higher volumes AND more easily pushed speakers.
As long as they are close, most if not 99% of ears would never know what is going on. And that 1%, they are pushing their amps to the extreme and require EVERY detail of sonic matching to occur.
I have built custom guitar amps for about 10 years now. I don't know if you saw my pic but it was a concert pic-I tour as a semi professional musician as well.
Anyway, there have been LOADS of talk about impedance matching and one can get REALLY lost in it-especially from a high end-and I am talking 100k systems here.
Impedance matching ONLY means that you will have, if ALL other factors are considered and resolved i.e. perfect signal, component perfection IDEAL power output from the amp.
Now, mismatching impedance can run anywhere from a sound you want (as in a guitar amp's harmonic distortion) to frying your amp if it is run at VERY high volumes for a VERY long time. Now, these issues were LARGELY related to tube driven impedances correlating with output tranny impedances/speaker loads.
Now, small impedance mismatch in current, solid state mossfet driven systems are really not that concerning in terms of product reliability i.e. burning up the power section. Running 2 ohms into an amp that states it's specs in 4 ohm levels is really of little concern to me or someone who plays their music for maybe 2 hours at a time at no more than 50% of the amp's rated output. Mismatch at this level i.e. 2/4 ohm match will have a slight effect on quality of signal and bass output BUT it is so minor that most would not even know.
A large mismatch? Well, take into consideration that your stock speakers were loaded at what...12ohms in the rear and probably four in the front ( : I don't know for sure and I could be wrong but I doubt the stock amp had two power boards-one for each load. Moreover, most that replace the rear deck speakers do so with 4 ohm loads. They say they hear an increase in volume and clarity. Well of course, beacause the power section of the amp is running at more optimum levels therefore producing a better, clearer output of the frequencies. How long did it run that way? Probably a long time for most 993's with 0 amp failure.
Anyway, I am no car audio expert BUT sonic relations whethere it be home, music or car should be the same in concept. I know guitar amps very well so that is the basis of my lack of concern for the impedance mismatch and my comments.
By the way and a note, most new amps are spec'ng at 4 ohm loads. I think the reason the speakers are touting 2 ohm loads is to correlate with higher volumes AND more easily pushed speakers.
As long as they are close, most if not 99% of ears would never know what is going on. And that 1%, they are pushing their amps to the extreme and require EVERY detail of sonic matching to occur.
If you look at the spec. sheets for both amps (Alpine I know) and speakers (Infinity I know) they both say in effect don't use a 2 ohm speaker on an amp designed for a 4 ohm load, and most head unit amps are only rated down to 4 ohms. Seperate amps are more likely to be rated down to 2 ohms.
I just wouldn't want to chance blowing a head unit using a 2 ohm load, there are too many good 4 ohm speakers to take that chance. JMO
03-01-2007, 04:03 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by 993BillW
Umm, I wouldn't be so concerned about impedance mismatch re: sound quality, that's not the issue I would have.
If you look at the spec. sheets for both amps (Alpine I know) and speakers (Infinity I know) they both say in effect don't use a 2 ohm speaker on an amp designed for a 4 ohm load, and most head unit amps are only rated down to 4 ohms. Seperate amps are more likely to be rated down to 2 ohms.
I just wouldn't want to chance blowing a head unit using a 2 ohm load, there are too many good 4 ohm speakers to take that chance. JMO
If you look at the spec. sheets for both amps (Alpine I know) and speakers (Infinity I know) they both say in effect don't use a 2 ohm speaker on an amp designed for a 4 ohm load, and most head unit amps are only rated down to 4 ohms. Seperate amps are more likely to be rated down to 2 ohms.
I just wouldn't want to chance blowing a head unit using a 2 ohm load, there are too many good 4 ohm speakers to take that chance. JMO
This is a debate that gets tossed around A LOT by audiophiles and amp builders. What you find, in general, is that the signal is effected i.e. frequency drops at certain levels BUT that is it. Now, this is for 1:1, 2:1 3:1 and 4:1 ratios AND this is for impedance sensitive i.e. will destroy if not properly matched components like tubes AND at FULL power draw which most never see or will.
For Mosfets (sp?), it just is not that important. They are either efficient or not efficient in terms of their delivery. This holds true for that head unit and all other amps these days.
Just my opinion based on many mismatched impedance tests and running them mismatched without issue.
Just another perspective and by the way, my perfects are 4 ohm any way ( : I believe most ebayers are selling old stock anyway-which if using the head unit and concerned about impedance issues, bodes well.
Last edited by Jukelemon; 03-01-2007 at 06:23 PM.
03-01-2007, 11:29 PM
#37
Three Wheelin'
I am surprised that no one runs Boston Acoustics. I had Pro 6.4 separates (6.5 inch) in my last Porsche and I got a lot of bass out of the doors (well, good for doors anyway) and really good imaging up front.
This 95 I just got has all shot factory cones and sounds like crap - can't wait to put something else in there. The Boston Acoustics are starting to get pricey.
This 95 I just got has all shot factory cones and sounds like crap - can't wait to put something else in there. The Boston Acoustics are starting to get pricey.
03-02-2007, 02:09 PM
#38
I've got boston pro's in my e36 convertible, they sound great. I didn't want to use components without an amp so I went the cheap way on this. When I do decide to go ***** out, I will use better stuff. But for now, $100 and 4 speakers later, I can listen to my stereo.
03-02-2007, 02:18 PM
#39
Race Director
Originally Posted by allill
coaxials. i don't want to run seperates without an amp.
03-02-2007, 05:30 PM
#40
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Was running Boston Acoustics in my old Golf and must say, very impressed - still have them so might chuck them in the p-car to try and improve the dismal factory set-up.
Out of interest, how easy is it to get the door panels off to get to the speakers?
Out of interest, how easy is it to get the door panels off to get to the speakers?
03-02-2007, 06:51 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Jukelemon
...I have built custom guitar amps for about 10 years now...
And now, back to your regularly scheduled programming...
08-10-2014, 06:15 PM
#42
Drifting
Old thread I know -- but topic is relevant.
Have a hifi equipped 96 Cab with an aftermarket head unit.
Car is new to me -- so I don't know the exact wiring hookup.
I picked up some Polk 6 1/4" component setup -- not realizing the CAB
has the 4" setup for the CAB HiFI
1) Has anyone successfully modded the HiFi box for 6 1/4.
2) Is there anyone that has an alternative that fits behind the carpeted box?
3) has anyone just ditched the box, put the speakers in the door -- and
then put the carpeted box back in. My wife would like to look stock.
thanks,
Mike
Have a hifi equipped 96 Cab with an aftermarket head unit.
Car is new to me -- so I don't know the exact wiring hookup.
I picked up some Polk 6 1/4" component setup -- not realizing the CAB
has the 4" setup for the CAB HiFI
1) Has anyone successfully modded the HiFi box for 6 1/4.
2) Is there anyone that has an alternative that fits behind the carpeted box?
3) has anyone just ditched the box, put the speakers in the door -- and
then put the carpeted box back in. My wife would like to look stock.
thanks,
Mike
08-09-2019, 08:14 PM
#45
8th Gear
DB48 993 Targa speaker upgrade
Hi there. I’m new to Rennlist and these threads. Been doing some research into Speaker and 993 stereo upgrades.
I have a 96 Alpine White Targa here in Christchurch NZ, and just upgraded dash unit with Alpine CDE 163 EBT unit as the existing Apline of 10 years didn’t have BT or hands free. New unit is streets ahead in every way BUT now I find speakers have pretty much had it. I have the Hi Fi option and easiest place for me to start with speakers is the rears. These are factory Nokia’s which have fallen to pieces. They are 6x4 ovals. Why do speaker sizes measure in inches?
you’d think German stuff be all metric?
Anyway have pretty much decided to go with Rockford Fosgate P1462 Punch 4"x 6" 2-way Full Range Speakers as they fit the hole. Can land these here shipped via amazon for NZ$130 which is pretty reasonable. Question is will the original Speaker covers fit these speaker base plates. I figure maybe it doesn’t really matter as the RF speakers come with their own covers.
My head unit installer (Glen from GRC mobile car audio) who did a fantastic job, suggested maybe upgrading the amp under the drivers seat before upgrading the front speakers and tweeters. Because they are running from the amp with different ohmn ratings might be easier than running new speakers of the same size etc direct from head unit.
Has anyone had any recent experience here with appropriate amp. (2 way, 3 way, 4 way) and with easily fitted new speakers for the HiFi option. I am reluctant to alter hole sizes. I measured the fronts as mid range Top one, 80 mm and Bass lower as 120mm, tweeters approx 45mm (1”5/8)
Cheers DB48
I have a 96 Alpine White Targa here in Christchurch NZ, and just upgraded dash unit with Alpine CDE 163 EBT unit as the existing Apline of 10 years didn’t have BT or hands free. New unit is streets ahead in every way BUT now I find speakers have pretty much had it. I have the Hi Fi option and easiest place for me to start with speakers is the rears. These are factory Nokia’s which have fallen to pieces. They are 6x4 ovals. Why do speaker sizes measure in inches?
you’d think German stuff be all metric?
Anyway have pretty much decided to go with Rockford Fosgate P1462 Punch 4"x 6" 2-way Full Range Speakers as they fit the hole. Can land these here shipped via amazon for NZ$130 which is pretty reasonable. Question is will the original Speaker covers fit these speaker base plates. I figure maybe it doesn’t really matter as the RF speakers come with their own covers.
My head unit installer (Glen from GRC mobile car audio) who did a fantastic job, suggested maybe upgrading the amp under the drivers seat before upgrading the front speakers and tweeters. Because they are running from the amp with different ohmn ratings might be easier than running new speakers of the same size etc direct from head unit.
Has anyone had any recent experience here with appropriate amp. (2 way, 3 way, 4 way) and with easily fitted new speakers for the HiFi option. I am reluctant to alter hole sizes. I measured the fronts as mid range Top one, 80 mm and Bass lower as 120mm, tweeters approx 45mm (1”5/8)
Cheers DB48
