993 Safety
04-03-2002, 03:49 AM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
993 Safety
Anir,
I just read your post on an older thread ("Only for those with strong stomachs") regarding crash safety of 911s. I looked through the Highway Loss Data Institute site (www.hwysafety.org) and found the injury loss data for "1995-1997 Porsche 911," which obviously is the 993. As you know, this info is based on insurance company records regarding injury claims. The average for all cars is 100. The lower the number, the better the car's safety record. Since these figures are based on actual crashes, my understanding is that they are regarded as relatively credible. The 993 has a stunningly good record -- the rating is a 39. To put this in perspective, the list is very comprehensive (251 cars listed), and the ONLY vehicles ('95-'97 models) listed with a better (lower) rating are:
(Porsche 993: 39)
GMC 2500 4X4 Pickup: 33
Range Rover: 36
GMC Yukon 4X4 36
Buick Park Avenue 4-Door: 38
Other cars:
Mercedes-Benz S-Class: 42
Lincoln Town Car: 58
Dodge Neon: 134
Honda Civic: 127
Mercedes-Benz SL: 46
BMW Z3: 65
Mazda Miata: 90
While I hope none of us ever has to test it, this strongly suggests that the cockpit of a 993 is a good place to be, even if the worst happens.
I just read your post on an older thread ("Only for those with strong stomachs") regarding crash safety of 911s. I looked through the Highway Loss Data Institute site (www.hwysafety.org) and found the injury loss data for "1995-1997 Porsche 911," which obviously is the 993. As you know, this info is based on insurance company records regarding injury claims. The average for all cars is 100. The lower the number, the better the car's safety record. Since these figures are based on actual crashes, my understanding is that they are regarded as relatively credible. The 993 has a stunningly good record -- the rating is a 39. To put this in perspective, the list is very comprehensive (251 cars listed), and the ONLY vehicles ('95-'97 models) listed with a better (lower) rating are:
(Porsche 993: 39)
GMC 2500 4X4 Pickup: 33
Range Rover: 36
GMC Yukon 4X4 36
Buick Park Avenue 4-Door: 38
Other cars:
Mercedes-Benz S-Class: 42
Lincoln Town Car: 58
Dodge Neon: 134
Honda Civic: 127
Mercedes-Benz SL: 46
BMW Z3: 65
Mazda Miata: 90
While I hope none of us ever has to test it, this strongly suggests that the cockpit of a 993 is a good place to be, even if the worst happens.
04-03-2002, 10:28 AM
#3
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Speedraser
Consistent w/the HLDI data you posted, I just rec'd the bill for my 993 State Farm insurance premium. I was pleasantly stunned that it showed a whopping 53% DECREASE in comprehensive and a 31% DECREASE in collision along with an explanation that:
[quote]The claim experience on your make and model of vehicle has resulted in a reduction to your vehicle rating group for comprehensive and/or collision coverage.<hr></blockquote>
Consistent w/the HLDI data you posted, I just rec'd the bill for my 993 State Farm insurance premium. I was pleasantly stunned that it showed a whopping 53% DECREASE in comprehensive and a 31% DECREASE in collision along with an explanation that:
[quote]The claim experience on your make and model of vehicle has resulted in a reduction to your vehicle rating group for comprehensive and/or collision coverage.<hr></blockquote>
04-03-2002, 10:43 AM
#4
Rennlist Member
Just FWIW,
In 1987 my father and brother were involved in a head-on collision with a buick station wagon at 45 MPH - in our 1973 911T 2.4. Dad was wearing his seat belt, my brother wasn't. Amazingly, both of them walked away from the crash (which wasn't Dad's fault), while the driver who hit them was severely injured and had to undergo years of PT to recover. The front 2/3rds of the 911s hood was destroyed, but the passenger cabin was fully intact. There was no damage to the motor. In fact, the insurance company sold the wreck to a friend of ours who turned it into a very, very fast race car.
Now I'm not saying that it's a good idea to go off driving wrecklessly, but the stats point out that 911s (of any year) are very safe cars. Which is one reason why insurance costs are very reasonable once the cars have depreciated a bit.
And Dan, I'm scheduled to get my State Farm Insureance renewal this month...I'll be looking out for that discount. Thanks for sharing!
sean
In 1987 my father and brother were involved in a head-on collision with a buick station wagon at 45 MPH - in our 1973 911T 2.4. Dad was wearing his seat belt, my brother wasn't. Amazingly, both of them walked away from the crash (which wasn't Dad's fault), while the driver who hit them was severely injured and had to undergo years of PT to recover. The front 2/3rds of the 911s hood was destroyed, but the passenger cabin was fully intact. There was no damage to the motor. In fact, the insurance company sold the wreck to a friend of ours who turned it into a very, very fast race car.
Now I'm not saying that it's a good idea to go off driving wrecklessly, but the stats point out that 911s (of any year) are very safe cars. Which is one reason why insurance costs are very reasonable once the cars have depreciated a bit.
And Dan, I'm scheduled to get my State Farm Insureance renewal this month...I'll be looking out for that discount. Thanks for sharing!
sean
04-03-2002, 11:26 AM
#6
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Thanks for the update! Before I bought my '95, I tried reasearching "crash data," but couldn't find much. There have been a few threads on this over the last year but all has still left me wondering about this for some time now since I occasionally cart around my 8 and 5 year olds in the back. Thanks for a bit more reassurance. 
And it doesn't hurt that even the insurance companies buy into it! 
Edward
And it doesn't hurt that even the insurance companies buy into it! Edward
04-08-2002, 07:04 PM
#7
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Quick follow-up: I mentioned the 993's extremely good HLDI result to some friends. Some of them were very skeptical and thought it might me something of a fluke. So, I went back to the site and looked at the '96-'98 rankings. The 993 scored a 43, clearly in the very same ballpark as the earlier 39. My friends were humbled . . .
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04-08-2002, 10:52 PM
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Nice to see "facts" that back up my gut feel on how safe my 993 is. Where on the <a href="http://www.hwysafety.org" target="_blank">www.hwysafety.org</a> site did you find this info?
04-09-2002, 09:51 PM
#9
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Laurence,
Scroll down to "Injury, collision and theft losses by make and model, 1998-2000 models," then click on "results." Then, scroll down and look at the right-hand column -- you'll see links for 1995-1997 and 1996-1998 models, both of which list the 911 under "Sports Cars." The safety data is under the "injury" column -- the other columns concern collision repair costs and theft.
If I knew how to post the link, I would, but I'm not nearly as computer-literate as I should be. By the way, the Boxster also does well, with a 45 in the '98-2000 list.
Scroll down to "Injury, collision and theft losses by make and model, 1998-2000 models," then click on "results." Then, scroll down and look at the right-hand column -- you'll see links for 1995-1997 and 1996-1998 models, both of which list the 911 under "Sports Cars." The safety data is under the "injury" column -- the other columns concern collision repair costs and theft.
If I knew how to post the link, I would, but I'm not nearly as computer-literate as I should be. By the way, the Boxster also does well, with a 45 in the '98-2000 list.
04-09-2002, 10:42 PM
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Todd-
Thanks. As far as highlighting a link, I'll do my best to explain how I do it. The way I do it (there may be better ways) is highlight the url in the address box (of the page you want to provide the link to), then cut (control c) and paste (control v) to the message I am writing. That then provides an active link in the message. Thanks again for the info. <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />
Thanks. As far as highlighting a link, I'll do my best to explain how I do it. The way I do it (there may be better ways) is highlight the url in the address box (of the page you want to provide the link to), then cut (control c) and paste (control v) to the message I am writing. That then provides an active link in the message. Thanks again for the info. <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />
04-09-2002, 10:54 PM
#11
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Here are links:
<a href="http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ictl/previous/ictl_0999.pdf" target="_blank">1996-98 HLDI Report - 993 coupe/targa (see p.3) - pdf file</a>
<a href="http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ictl/previous/ictl_0399.pdf" target="_blank">1995-97 HLDI Report - 993 coupe/targa (see p.3) - pdf file</a>
<a href="http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ictl/previous/ictl_0999.pdf" target="_blank">1996-98 HLDI Report - 993 coupe/targa (see p.3) - pdf file</a>
<a href="http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ictl/previous/ictl_0399.pdf" target="_blank">1995-97 HLDI Report - 993 coupe/targa (see p.3) - pdf file</a>
04-09-2002, 11:11 PM
#12
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[quote]Originally posted by Dan 96C2 St.Louis:
<strong>...rec'd the bill for my 993 State Farm insurance ... it showed a whopping 53% DECREASE in comprehensive and a 31% DECREASE in collision...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Just learned part of the quoted decreases were from a rating change in my area. The favorable 993 data did result in decreases, but not the entire amount, so don't go beat up your State Farm agent.
<strong>...rec'd the bill for my 993 State Farm insurance ... it showed a whopping 53% DECREASE in comprehensive and a 31% DECREASE in collision...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Just learned part of the quoted decreases were from a rating change in my area. The favorable 993 data did result in decreases, but not the entire amount, so don't go beat up your State Farm agent.
04-10-2002, 12:38 AM
#13
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Speedraser:
I can attest to the safety of a 993, unfortunately. I totaled one a few months ago. I had done some work to the suspension of a car that I had just purchased and took it out on a Sunday to see what it felt like. I was in an office park and approached a stop sign at approximately 50 MPH. When I started to brake, the brakes went straight to ABS and just skipped over the rough surface of the road. I don’t think I scrubbed any speed off at all. The car struck a tree on the driver side door. Luckily no one else was with me nor was anyone injured due to my poor judgment. The door was pressed in about 18 inches. You can very clearly see the side impact protection bar as the door skin is stretched tight around it. The roof was folded from the sunroof edge to an almost vertical position. The airbags did not deploy as the crash was not one from the front. I was wearing my seatbelt as always. I had a concussion, but other than that walked away without a scratch. My wife even said “Nothing but Porsches for us!” Walked away isn’t exactly correct. I don’t remember a thing past running the stop sign. I regained consciousness as I was being loaded onto a crash board by the EMTs and again while being X-Rayed in the ER. I was released two hours later and went to the wrecker yard to look at my car. I was absolutely stunned. The door was pushed into the seat and steering wheel. What a crime to kill such a wonderful car. If you are interested, I will scan and post some of the pictures.
Hank
I can attest to the safety of a 993, unfortunately. I totaled one a few months ago. I had done some work to the suspension of a car that I had just purchased and took it out on a Sunday to see what it felt like. I was in an office park and approached a stop sign at approximately 50 MPH. When I started to brake, the brakes went straight to ABS and just skipped over the rough surface of the road. I don’t think I scrubbed any speed off at all. The car struck a tree on the driver side door. Luckily no one else was with me nor was anyone injured due to my poor judgment. The door was pressed in about 18 inches. You can very clearly see the side impact protection bar as the door skin is stretched tight around it. The roof was folded from the sunroof edge to an almost vertical position. The airbags did not deploy as the crash was not one from the front. I was wearing my seatbelt as always. I had a concussion, but other than that walked away without a scratch. My wife even said “Nothing but Porsches for us!” Walked away isn’t exactly correct. I don’t remember a thing past running the stop sign. I regained consciousness as I was being loaded onto a crash board by the EMTs and again while being X-Rayed in the ER. I was released two hours later and went to the wrecker yard to look at my car. I was absolutely stunned. The door was pushed into the seat and steering wheel. What a crime to kill such a wonderful car. If you are interested, I will scan and post some of the pictures.
Hank
04-10-2002, 11:54 AM
#15
All,
Although I concur with everyone's opinion of the safety aspects of the 993, I'm a bit concerned with over-emphasizing this one statistical point. Especially when you look at the details in the rest of the report. For example, why do Chevy trucks score worse than GMC? I've got to believe that there are more driver-related issues (as well as sample-size issues) here.
I for one, would rather my family was in a big Mercedes or BMW during an accident than in my 993. I think part of what lowers the 993 rating is: fewer road miles (and few of those in commuting situations) and more competant, experienced drivers who are focused on driving, rather than talking on the phone, arguing with the kids, or making it to the office on time.
Don't mean to rain on a parade, just want to keep things in perspective.
Although I concur with everyone's opinion of the safety aspects of the 993, I'm a bit concerned with over-emphasizing this one statistical point. Especially when you look at the details in the rest of the report. For example, why do Chevy trucks score worse than GMC? I've got to believe that there are more driver-related issues (as well as sample-size issues) here.
I for one, would rather my family was in a big Mercedes or BMW during an accident than in my 993. I think part of what lowers the 993 rating is: fewer road miles (and few of those in commuting situations) and more competant, experienced drivers who are focused on driving, rather than talking on the phone, arguing with the kids, or making it to the office on time.
Don't mean to rain on a parade, just want to keep things in perspective.