It was NOT a good night...(very long)
01-01-2003, 10:21 AM
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It was NOT a good night...(very long)
My 993 died last night. I'll spare the gory details up front, and save the story for later so that I can get the help/advice that I'm ultimately after before boring everyone to tears. It has been very rainy the last few days - we were driving from a sports bar to the restaurant we had reservations at, about a mile away. Before arriving, the ABS light came on. Then the airbag light came on. I immediately suspected the alternator. Rather than go to the restaurant, we passed by it and tried to make it home (another 1.5 miles). We didn't make it. The car came to a griding halt, and thankfully I was able to get the car into a parking lot and into a safe spot.
Here's the background: a month or so ago, Later in December, I changed the spark plugs, fuel filter, and lots of other minor DIY stuff. Lots of it has been discussed here already. I drove without the oil cap on, and got oil all over the inside of the engine bay and on the rear of the body. I sprayed it off with degreaser and rinsed it real well, staying away from the distributors. No problems. Within a few days, the car began acting up for my wife, she called me and I came and picked her up and drove the 993 home. It was hesitating, down on power, and there was a strong smell of fuel in the exhaust. But it went away before arriving home. I had new distributor caps and rotors on the way, and figured that was the problem. I checked the existing ones, found some carbon on the distributor rotors and lightly dressed them. I can't remember if it was just before or just after this incident (seems like it was just before), I noticed the battery light flickering faintly after turning the car off. There was another time that I turned off the car, pulled out the key, and the battery light was flickering on and off for quite some time. That was what happened shortly before the alternator died last time, but I didn't heed the warning. So this time, I took the car to Autozone and had them verify the alternator output. It checked out ok. I figured my wiring harness was in it's last days. The engine hesitating came back in a few days, and the exhaust was so bad it set off the house fire alarm as I revved it in the garage. I had it towed to the dealer, who then proceeded to rape me. They changed the engine wiring harness under the recall, and told me there was a bad air valve. After replacing that, it still wasn't running right, and they found the oxygen sensor was bad, and also replaced one of the belts (I'm not sure which one, but have the part number on the receipt). The bill came out to $975!!!! <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />
<img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" /> At least I still had my PCA coupon.
Upon picking up the car from the dealer, the belt was slipping, and at throttle tip-in, the car hesitated, then popped/backfired. I let it warm up before leaving the lot, and it seemed better. But the belt has been slipping regularly in the week I have had it back. I haven't put more than 100 miles on the car.
Here's the plan: I suspect the alternator (2 years 4 mo old) died, and I was running on battery (2 yrs 5 mo old) power. It's dead now. I'm going to remove the battery (Die Hard) and take it to Autozone and have them bring it to full charge. I can be sure the get the car home since it's only about a half mile away. I could take the alternator out once the car is home, and replace it under warranty (lifetime warranty from Autozone). Last time they got one overnight and had it by 10 am the next morning. I probably should buy a Bosch, and I'm struggling with that, but I've poured thousands into my car in the last few months, and would like to lessen the damages. I can't possibly imagine this being anything different than a bad alternator, but I'm wondering if any of it could have been due to the wiring harness or anything that the dealer may have done. But I doubt it. And since the existing alternator is non-OEM, I'm sure that reimbursement from Porsche would be laughable.
Here's where I really got lucky, aside from the fact that we were so close to home: the check engine light has been coming on in my wife's A4. The water temp was running low in the hiway, but when in traffic, it was fine. Never got hot. I figured the thermostate was stuck open (much better than being stuck closed). I ordered a new thermostat, and struggled putting it on. The outfut that sold it to me was extremely helpful. The serpentine belt has to be removed, but I never figurd out the tensioner pulley. I pulled off a different pulley that had 3 bolts holding it on (like the pulleys on the 993 alternator) to get the belt off. After about 5 hours, I was wrapping things up, and the salesman went into their parts dept. and got the tensioner in his hands so he could explain to me how it worked. Naturally, I couldn't see mine once it was in position, and had to use a mirror and flashlight just to look at the base. He told me how I needed to put a 17mm wrench on the hex casting on the swing arm, and turn it clockwise. That will line up 2 holes, and you put a drift pin through them to hold the tensioner in the slack position. There is a huge spring inside that creates the tension. I had a hard time getting the torque needed, because naturally, there wasn't enough room to get my whole fist on the wrench. I could only use my fingers. So in my wisdom, I got my monkey wrench (apt name) which I can use a breaker bar on, and used that. But I was using the wrong hole with the drift pin, and was struggling to get this to work. Then I broke off the tensioner!! Turns out that the head of the monkey wrench was hitting the pulley (I couldn't see this from the top) and transmitting much of the torque. If I were using the right hole to push the drift pin through, I would have been fine. But I was pushing against the stop, and it finally let go. Upon examining the broken pulley, I realized the wrench crushed a portion of the tensioner wheel where it was contacting! I was glad it broke, because I would have never noticed this. It just so happened that this happened Friday night just after the parts shop closed, so I had to wait until Monday to order a new part. A new tensioner was $100, and my wife wanted me to get it asap. She wasn't happy about having to share a ride (again) to get to work on Thursday. I relented, and overnighted the part, and got it yesterday (Tuesday). Using the proper tools and procedures (the tensioner was delivered with the drift pin in place, thankfully) I was able to put the car back together in 30 min. Had I not waited, and shipped the tensioner UPS ground, we would have no cars working right now.
To finish the dreadful story from last night: as the car came to a halt, we weighed our options and called our friends who we were supposed to meet for dinner to tell them we were going to be a bit late for our 9:00 reservation. I decided to run home and get my wife's car. It was still raining, and there is no shoulder or sidewalk (country road). But all I had to do was make it to the neighborhood adjacent to ours, and take the back route. I had a shirt and tie on, slacks and dress shoes. And my Porsche fleece jacket and microfiber hat. At least the temp was in the mid 40's. As I got into the adjacent neighborhood, I realized there is about 50' of mud when crossing from that neighborhood into our neighborhood (new construction mud/clay). When it's dry, this is not a problem (I regularly jog through there in the summer). When it's wet, it's impossible. My shoes wouldn't even stay on my feet. Just then, a car drove into the neighborhood, and I flagged them down. They gave me a ride to our house. I got my wife's car and picked her up, and we went to dinner.
We were 15 min late.
One more question popped into my head: if I remove the battery, can I still lock the doors? Or unlock them later? I don't have the keyless entry, I use the key in the lock.
I refuse to take this as an omen, or bad sign, or any silliness like that for the new year. I don't believe in that stuff. It's just bad luck, but unfortunately, lately, I've had a lot of that. But it could have been worse. Happy New Year, and I hope your evening was better than mine.
Here's the background: a month or so ago, Later in December, I changed the spark plugs, fuel filter, and lots of other minor DIY stuff. Lots of it has been discussed here already. I drove without the oil cap on, and got oil all over the inside of the engine bay and on the rear of the body. I sprayed it off with degreaser and rinsed it real well, staying away from the distributors. No problems. Within a few days, the car began acting up for my wife, she called me and I came and picked her up and drove the 993 home. It was hesitating, down on power, and there was a strong smell of fuel in the exhaust. But it went away before arriving home. I had new distributor caps and rotors on the way, and figured that was the problem. I checked the existing ones, found some carbon on the distributor rotors and lightly dressed them. I can't remember if it was just before or just after this incident (seems like it was just before), I noticed the battery light flickering faintly after turning the car off. There was another time that I turned off the car, pulled out the key, and the battery light was flickering on and off for quite some time. That was what happened shortly before the alternator died last time, but I didn't heed the warning. So this time, I took the car to Autozone and had them verify the alternator output. It checked out ok. I figured my wiring harness was in it's last days. The engine hesitating came back in a few days, and the exhaust was so bad it set off the house fire alarm as I revved it in the garage. I had it towed to the dealer, who then proceeded to rape me. They changed the engine wiring harness under the recall, and told me there was a bad air valve. After replacing that, it still wasn't running right, and they found the oxygen sensor was bad, and also replaced one of the belts (I'm not sure which one, but have the part number on the receipt). The bill came out to $975!!!! <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />
<img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" /> At least I still had my PCA coupon. Upon picking up the car from the dealer, the belt was slipping, and at throttle tip-in, the car hesitated, then popped/backfired. I let it warm up before leaving the lot, and it seemed better. But the belt has been slipping regularly in the week I have had it back. I haven't put more than 100 miles on the car.
Here's the plan: I suspect the alternator (2 years 4 mo old) died, and I was running on battery (2 yrs 5 mo old) power. It's dead now. I'm going to remove the battery (Die Hard) and take it to Autozone and have them bring it to full charge. I can be sure the get the car home since it's only about a half mile away. I could take the alternator out once the car is home, and replace it under warranty (lifetime warranty from Autozone). Last time they got one overnight and had it by 10 am the next morning. I probably should buy a Bosch, and I'm struggling with that, but I've poured thousands into my car in the last few months, and would like to lessen the damages. I can't possibly imagine this being anything different than a bad alternator, but I'm wondering if any of it could have been due to the wiring harness or anything that the dealer may have done. But I doubt it. And since the existing alternator is non-OEM, I'm sure that reimbursement from Porsche would be laughable.
Here's where I really got lucky, aside from the fact that we were so close to home: the check engine light has been coming on in my wife's A4. The water temp was running low in the hiway, but when in traffic, it was fine. Never got hot. I figured the thermostate was stuck open (much better than being stuck closed). I ordered a new thermostat, and struggled putting it on. The outfut that sold it to me was extremely helpful. The serpentine belt has to be removed, but I never figurd out the tensioner pulley. I pulled off a different pulley that had 3 bolts holding it on (like the pulleys on the 993 alternator) to get the belt off. After about 5 hours, I was wrapping things up, and the salesman went into their parts dept. and got the tensioner in his hands so he could explain to me how it worked. Naturally, I couldn't see mine once it was in position, and had to use a mirror and flashlight just to look at the base. He told me how I needed to put a 17mm wrench on the hex casting on the swing arm, and turn it clockwise. That will line up 2 holes, and you put a drift pin through them to hold the tensioner in the slack position. There is a huge spring inside that creates the tension. I had a hard time getting the torque needed, because naturally, there wasn't enough room to get my whole fist on the wrench. I could only use my fingers. So in my wisdom, I got my monkey wrench (apt name) which I can use a breaker bar on, and used that. But I was using the wrong hole with the drift pin, and was struggling to get this to work. Then I broke off the tensioner!! Turns out that the head of the monkey wrench was hitting the pulley (I couldn't see this from the top) and transmitting much of the torque. If I were using the right hole to push the drift pin through, I would have been fine. But I was pushing against the stop, and it finally let go. Upon examining the broken pulley, I realized the wrench crushed a portion of the tensioner wheel where it was contacting! I was glad it broke, because I would have never noticed this. It just so happened that this happened Friday night just after the parts shop closed, so I had to wait until Monday to order a new part. A new tensioner was $100, and my wife wanted me to get it asap. She wasn't happy about having to share a ride (again) to get to work on Thursday. I relented, and overnighted the part, and got it yesterday (Tuesday). Using the proper tools and procedures (the tensioner was delivered with the drift pin in place, thankfully) I was able to put the car back together in 30 min. Had I not waited, and shipped the tensioner UPS ground, we would have no cars working right now.
To finish the dreadful story from last night: as the car came to a halt, we weighed our options and called our friends who we were supposed to meet for dinner to tell them we were going to be a bit late for our 9:00 reservation. I decided to run home and get my wife's car. It was still raining, and there is no shoulder or sidewalk (country road). But all I had to do was make it to the neighborhood adjacent to ours, and take the back route. I had a shirt and tie on, slacks and dress shoes. And my Porsche fleece jacket and microfiber hat. At least the temp was in the mid 40's. As I got into the adjacent neighborhood, I realized there is about 50' of mud when crossing from that neighborhood into our neighborhood (new construction mud/clay). When it's dry, this is not a problem (I regularly jog through there in the summer). When it's wet, it's impossible. My shoes wouldn't even stay on my feet. Just then, a car drove into the neighborhood, and I flagged them down. They gave me a ride to our house. I got my wife's car and picked her up, and we went to dinner.
We were 15 min late.
One more question popped into my head: if I remove the battery, can I still lock the doors? Or unlock them later? I don't have the keyless entry, I use the key in the lock.
I refuse to take this as an omen, or bad sign, or any silliness like that for the new year. I don't believe in that stuff. It's just bad luck, but unfortunately, lately, I've had a lot of that. But it could have been worse. Happy New Year, and I hope your evening was better than mine.
01-01-2003, 12:16 PM
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"Upon picking up the car from the dealer, the belt was slipping, and at throttle tip-in, the car hesitated, then popped/backfired. I let it warm up before leaving the lot, and it seemed better. But the belt has been slipping regularly in the week I have had it back. I haven't put more than 100 miles on the car."
Fix the alternator belt before you do anything like replace the alternator, remove at least one if not two shims. My guess is that it is still slipping and not turning the alternator except at idle speed.
Fix the alternator belt before you do anything like replace the alternator, remove at least one if not two shims. My guess is that it is still slipping and not turning the alternator except at idle speed.
01-01-2003, 12:36 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by A.J. - 95 993:
<strong>
One more question popped into my head: if I remove the battery, can I still lock the doors? Or unlock them later? I don't have the keyless entry, I use the key in the lock.
.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes you can. I do that when I put my 993 into hybernation. I hope you have a great New Year and your troubles are going to be a bad memory soon...
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
<strong>
One more question popped into my head: if I remove the battery, can I still lock the doors? Or unlock them later? I don't have the keyless entry, I use the key in the lock.
.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes you can. I do that when I put my 993 into hybernation. I hope you have a great New Year and your troubles are going to be a bad memory soon...
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
01-01-2003, 12:45 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by A.J. - 95 993:
<strong>... I drove without the oil cap on, and got oil all over the inside of the engine bay and on the rear of the body...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Bummer about your mechanical, generally.
I did the above once; actually the cap was merely loose after an oil replenishment. After about 10
miles I started wondering "why does my nice new
993 smell like my '77 Euro Carrera?" Pulled over
and found the cap loose, flogged myself for being
an idiot for the rest of the drive....
<strong>... I drove without the oil cap on, and got oil all over the inside of the engine bay and on the rear of the body...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Bummer about your mechanical, generally.
I did the above once; actually the cap was merely loose after an oil replenishment. After about 10
miles I started wondering "why does my nice new
993 smell like my '77 Euro Carrera?" Pulled over
and found the cap loose, flogged myself for being
an idiot for the rest of the drive....
01-01-2003, 01:13 PM
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As I was relaying the story to a few of my buddies this morning, I realized that even with the long dissertation above, I omitted an important aspect of the stress factor from last night: we initially left the house just before 5pm last night to pick up the babysitter and bring her back to our houes. She lives about a half hour away. A mile from the house, we were waiting at a light and got rear-ended!!! This is the third time since July that this has happened. Thankfully, we were in the Audi. It was a very low speed impact. My wife was driving, and began to say something just before the impact - she saw the other car coming and was afraid they were going to hit us! The car was coasting slowly, so there was no squealing of tires or any real drama. I really don't know what the cause was - probably alcohol related. We pulled off the side of the road. In the dark and rain, I couldn't see any damage to our car, but her nose was bent up in lots of little places. I was getting the vital information from the driver in her car (new Prelude) when my wife walked back and said she just called the cops. I wasn't real happy about this, because that meant it was going to take forever. It did - over an hour, but the cops didn't make us get out of the cars. They handled everything. But what was wierd is they never asked us any questions. After that, we almost just went home and called it a night, but I didn't want to sit at home all night and think about what had just happened. So we went and got the babysitter and brought her back to our house, and went out to the sports bar before our dinner reservations...
Greg - thanks for the tip on the belt. I have all the necessary tools and spare belts in the car, too, just in case. But I'm going to pull the battery and take it to Autozone (they're open today) to charge it, and limp the car home so I can work on it where it's dry.
Thanks for the help!
Greg - thanks for the tip on the belt. I have all the necessary tools and spare belts in the car, too, just in case. But I'm going to pull the battery and take it to Autozone (they're open today) to charge it, and limp the car home so I can work on it where it's dry.
Thanks for the help!
01-01-2003, 01:40 PM
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A.J., you are an exemplary contributor to this board. Such a miserable evening, yet you took it in stride and made time to share your experience in case others encounter the same. Thank you.
01-01-2003, 02:51 PM
#7
A.J. - Sounds like a crappy way to end 2002. 2003 can only get better!
Considering the Porsche dealer recently worked on your car, it's clear to me they either misdiagnosed the problem or their workmanship is crap. I'd have the car delivered to their lot and insist they get it right, i.e. no popping, belt squealing, warning lights, etc.
In my opinion, you are worse off now than you were before you dropped $975. As a consumer, you have a pretty good case for them to make it COMPLETELY right (including paying your tow bill if necessary) or give you your money back.
I'm not suggesting it's their fault your car died. I'm only suggesting that they give you quality service for your money or give you your money back. Best of luck -
Matt
Considering the Porsche dealer recently worked on your car, it's clear to me they either misdiagnosed the problem or their workmanship is crap. I'd have the car delivered to their lot and insist they get it right, i.e. no popping, belt squealing, warning lights, etc.
In my opinion, you are worse off now than you were before you dropped $975. As a consumer, you have a pretty good case for them to make it COMPLETELY right (including paying your tow bill if necessary) or give you your money back.
I'm not suggesting it's their fault your car died. I'm only suggesting that they give you quality service for your money or give you your money back. Best of luck -
Matt
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01-01-2003, 07:27 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by H20NOO:
<strong>
I'm not suggesting it's their fault your car died. I'm only suggesting that they give you quality service for your money or give you your money back. Best of luck -
Matt</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't disagree, but in this case, since the intended repair is so simple, and the car is so close to home, I would have to go WAY out of my way and be without a car for some time to try to prove a point. If I were stranded and looking at further expenditures, I would be sure to be thorn in their side. But it's too far out of my way at this point.
By the way, I charged the battery, drove the car home, and inspected the belts. The alternator belt was VERY loose. It had 3 shims between the pulley, and I took out 2. Checked the tension, and I decided to take out the 3rd!! Heck of an adjustment, if you ask me. Then again, the belt may have been stretched more as it was slipping.
The dealer IS going to get a little letter from me. I personally like the people there, but it's important for them to know when they screwed something up. We'll see if they offer any...compensation.
<strong>
I'm not suggesting it's their fault your car died. I'm only suggesting that they give you quality service for your money or give you your money back. Best of luck -
Matt</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't disagree, but in this case, since the intended repair is so simple, and the car is so close to home, I would have to go WAY out of my way and be without a car for some time to try to prove a point. If I were stranded and looking at further expenditures, I would be sure to be thorn in their side. But it's too far out of my way at this point.
By the way, I charged the battery, drove the car home, and inspected the belts. The alternator belt was VERY loose. It had 3 shims between the pulley, and I took out 2. Checked the tension, and I decided to take out the 3rd!! Heck of an adjustment, if you ask me. Then again, the belt may have been stretched more as it was slipping.
The dealer IS going to get a little letter from me. I personally like the people there, but it's important for them to know when they screwed something up. We'll see if they offer any...compensation.
01-01-2003, 07:40 PM
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Good to hear that it was just the alternator belt. I can't remember how many shims I left inside of the pulley but the belt can get loose over time (a thousand miles or so) and should have been tight at the time you left the shop.
My experience with Bluegrass has also been miserable. Fortunately I never had to pay them anything since the two times I went to the dealer was for a warranty item. My suggestion is to stay very far away from them. I have never, ever heard of anyone saying anything good about their service department. They couldn't even balance two wheels without ruining them and then tried to stick me with two solid spoke wheels vs. hollow spokes.
My experience with Bluegrass has also been miserable. Fortunately I never had to pay them anything since the two times I went to the dealer was for a warranty item. My suggestion is to stay very far away from them. I have never, ever heard of anyone saying anything good about their service department. They couldn't even balance two wheels without ruining them and then tried to stick me with two solid spoke wheels vs. hollow spokes.
01-01-2003, 07:50 PM
#10
Well here's one for the books... No sooner I finished writing my post to you, I decided to take a new years day drive and... DEAD BATTERY!
After 5 years and 23k miles my battery finally decided to throw in the towl. I was expecting it soon but NOT TODAY!
<img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />
We've got blue sky and 65 degrees today. Perfect convertible weather. Anyway, I hope you get things worked out. I load tested my battery and it's the source of my problems so it's an easy fix. Just not today.
MC
After 5 years and 23k miles my battery finally decided to throw in the towl. I was expecting it soon but NOT TODAY!
<img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />
We've got blue sky and 65 degrees today. Perfect convertible weather. Anyway, I hope you get things worked out. I load tested my battery and it's the source of my problems so it's an easy fix. Just not today.
MC
01-02-2003, 05:36 PM
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I'm spitting bullets - the car didn't even work for 24 hours. It died in front of Daycare when I was picking up my son. The dash lights started coming on just before I parked, and it didn't have enough power left to restart the car. I called the dealer, and am towing it back to them. Thankfully, State Farm is picking up the tab for the tow, again. <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />
<img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />
01-03-2003, 11:35 AM
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I'm not sure if someone else thought of this first, but could the oil all over the engine compartment be the source of your slipping belt? did the dealer THOROUGHLY degrease the pulleys?
Sorry to hear about the misfortune.
Sorry to hear about the misfortune.
01-07-2003, 01:32 PM
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J Gordon, that's a good question. I checked the engine when it was running, and the alternator shaft was turning. At that point, I sent the car to the dealer on a flatbed. There really isn't any visible oil residue left in the engine compartment, and the dealership hasn't even asked me if there was an accident in there. It just so happens the Service Manager had a medical emergency over the holidays and is in intensive care (glad I haven't said anything bad about him!!). Getting this resolved is proving to be very difficult. Porsche Customer Committment told me to write a letter and they would respond within 15 days. I found someone at the dealership who can contact the regional rep on my behalf, and am waiting to hear back...