Rob 97 993c2

guys- i need ure help.
i was driving back to NYC on Rt17 after 2 days of a DE at Watkins Glen. Was given a ticket for 82 mph in a 55 zone.
Specifics:
2 lane open highway, 5pm, very little traffic (4 cars around). Cop was sitting in divider facing opposite direction. I came over a hill, saw him and braked. I was going faster (95), but believed i slowed to approx 70 when my Valentine beeped on the K band. He then pulled out and pulled me over. Cop was very polite and said to slow down and here is ure ticket. Does their radar show front and back? - i assume he wasnt looking at me initally as he was pointed towards the oncoming traffic in opposite direction.
How can I fight this?
Is there any way I can avoid driving 2-3 hours to go back to Hancock NY?
Obviously, I want to avoid points for insurance, and secondly, avoid paying a large fine.

This is my first speeding ticket and I would appreciate your help.
Can I argue that going 80 on an open highway in my car is reasonable? - i assume not.

best, =rob

Jeff 993TT

Sorry to hear about that Rob.

Check the archives, as there have been ways discussed that people have gotten out of speeding tickets.

Here is an example of a link:
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=007797" target="_blank">http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=007797</a>

Tech-Law

No way! Admission of speeding is the last thing you want to do. Here's my advice: plead not guilty by mail.

Then several weeks before your court date call the police station and ask to speak to the officer who gave you the ticket. It may take a few calls to find him there. Then apologize for your actions (without admitting anything) and bitch about how insurance companies and personal injury lawyers are driving up insurance rates for everyone.

Then ask if he would be willing to reduce your offense to a non-moving violation and that you're willing to pay the same fine as the speeding ticket. In my opinion not getting the points and the insurance increase is worth the fine. If he won't give you a non-moving violation then ask for an 1110(a) - this is failure to obey the signage in NY and only carries a 2 point penalty - speeding carries a whopping 6 points! You only get 18 points before your license gets pulled... DAMHIKT. <img border="0" alt="[crying]" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" />

Hope it helps.

mike cap

Rob,

Couple of questions.... Where were you when you recd the speed (county?) and who gave it to you? I assume it was a NYS Trooper? I may be able to help. Email me this info as soon as you can.

I don't believe that Tech-Law's advice will work. The officer or trooper will tell you to have your attorney contact the county DA and ask for a reduction to a non-moving violation. I have never been successfull dealing with the officer involved. And I have had SCORES of speeds in Upstate NY....

You may have to have your attorney contact the county DA and plead for reduction using the usual stuff.... my client drives a lot, insurance rates, first speed, blah, blah.

Email me with the details or, better yet, fax me a cc of the ticket. My fax # is 315-255-2889. Blow it up so it's readable and mark attention "Mike Cap" in the corner. Put your office or cell # on the sheet. My office # is 315-253-9721 x 106.

Was at the Glen on Sunday with my son and did the parade laps. Assume you were there as well.

Mike Cap
1997 C2
Arena Red

Chris W. - '96 Targa

If it's your first ticket, why not just take the safe driving class and be done with it? Yes, you'll have to pay the fine for the ticket, and the fee for the class. However, at least in Florida, going this route means you don't get any points on your license. Depending on your insurance carrier, you may also get by without an increase on your auto insurance. The class takes 4 hours, but it's worth it for that.

I had a ticket for 78 in a 55 last fall. The cop knocked it down to 64 in a 55. I paid the fine, took the driving class over the Internet from home, and never had any points or insurance increase assessed. Note the Internet class still takes 4 hours, even if you read through the stuff really quick and answer their test.

Good luck...

-Chris

24FPS

i agree w/ chris. i did traffic school over the web & paid the fines... = no ins. points

got nailed way over posted.. but cop wrote me up for only 15mph over limit... said he'd probably be doing the same if he had one.

(not sure if there's a mph over that kills your chance of traffic school though)

the price of driving a porsche???

BOL

DrZ

If you live in CA take a look at my post from a few days ago. I beat a laser 60mph in a 35 using defense from helpigotaticket.com. If I remember correctly this invaluable resource was first pointed out by Dan of STL.

sy308

Looks like you have had some nice informative replies. I have a few comments that might help you also.

First, I know you should not be surprised by the events as you describe them. Route 17 is filled with hills and curves with many open spaces in the median for police to hide. They have favorite spots. In my experience, they keep going back to the same places as they tend to be very successfull. In fact, there is an internet site that lists favorite hiding spots for police. If you search for highway, town and the event, I bet you find it.

Secondly, you CAN plead guilty but that closes the issue and certainly gives you points on your license.

Third, if you plead NOT guilty you might get the ticket reduced to either a moving or non-moving violation by the town clerk. In either way, speeding is not involved. This depends on how they handle out of town offenders. Sometimes, they have blanket policies which allow them to change the plead. Typically, the fine would be identical or higher to what you might have paid with a simple guilty (towns are not that stupid). Sometimes, the plead leads to two separate lesser charges which increase the "take". Ultimately, this would go before the judge who approves the situation. There is also the chance, the NOT guilty plea leads to a trial date in the local traffic court. As you know, the arresting officer must be present to testify or the case will be (and should be dismissed). Yes, it is possible to get before the judge and the DA will ask to have the case rescheduled if the officer is not present, but basically this situation is a pain for the officer too. He has to get paid for the appearance. It is possible also for the officer to be present if you are unlucky. In this situation, you might go over the case with your lawyer (if you choose to have one) or discuss it with the DA prior to the case. I am sure you have the opportunity to get various points or ideas on what to say or how to testify. Depending on the judge and DA, it is possible to have the case heard immediately or get that rescheduled too (if they really want to be difficult). The town or traffic courts are typically loaded with all kinds of issues. EVERYONE wants to get out of there quickly. They don't like extra work and will do everything they can to avoid it. This is why an non-appearing officer is the best situation for you. The case is dismissed and you invest nothing but your time. You should be prepared to spend at least a few hundred bucks here, however based on what you noted in the post with the speed over the limit to get this reduced.

Looks like you are on the road for a solution. As I always say, good luck!

MGA

Suggestion...hire a local attorney in the Hancock area...they usually play golf with the county DA or Justice of the Peace. They are often successful in reducing the moving violation...cost me about $250 in attorney fees plus sizable fine, but ticket went from 85 mph in a 45 work zone on the LIE, to a "cracked windshield". No moving violation.

Rob 97 993c2

firstly, thank you all for the help and support; especially to Mike Cap who was kind enough to give his time on the phone.

Questions:
1) if i call the county clerk (Mike suggested this) who, i just learned is the wife of the judge, do i ask her for the traffic school option? Would my driving record still be clear of no speeding tickets or moving violations.
2) Or, do i (or my lawyer) negotiate with the DA? I certainly want to avoid driving 2hrs back to Hancock NY.

Dan from StL - are you around?

mike cap

Rob,

Glad to help. Nice talking to you on the phone. Good suggestions above, but what works in FL or CA is not what works in NYS. Go to your local DMV and they'll give you a sheet on points for speed and options to reduce with a class, etc. They are usually very helpful on this stuff.

MGA is exactly right. If you HAVE TO go the attorney route, use a local attny in Hancock. Call me and I'll get you a name. You lucked out that the town clerk is wife of the judge (told you this would work !!). Ask her how to proceed. How charming can you be, by the way?

Definitely try to handle this yourself thru the town clerk and judge. You can always drag in an attny if you have to later on. If you have the town clerks ear and the judge's, you can negotiate with them. Remember, they just want your money and don't want to see you lose your license or get boned by your insurance company.

Keep me posted. My cell # is 315-246-2173 if you need to call me and I'm not in the office.

And stop driving my car so fast !!

Mike Cap
1997 C2
Arena Red

Rob 97 993c2

update:
I called the town clerk (judge's wife) who said i need to send back the ticket and check 'not guilty'. Then I can arrange to speak to the DA of the phone and work out an arrangement (usually w/o an appearance). She mentioned that drivers class is an option, but didnt know if that would show up on my insurance record. She said do not call the DA now as he doesnt get my info until i send back a plee. She said she was unable to work anything out without a plee and without the DA.
Do i need a lawyer b4 speaking to the DA? What is the handling of driving class on insurance and driving record??
thanks... =rob

tom97c4s

I don't know if you will need a lawyer. In NY the defensive driving school will get you a 10% discount on your insurance but will not remove the speeding surcharge from your policy. The class will also remove "DMV" points from your license but the points will remain on your policy.

Vinny '98 3.8 C2S

It's been my experience that small town NY politics can often play in your favor. (Yes, plenty of experience on Rt. 17). For a normal speeder I would not get a lawyer; however, I definitely would be willing to put in a 2 hour drive to keep the points off my license.

I've found that if you show up in court and are polite with your cop, in the vast majority of cases they are willing to drop points in lieu of a fine or sometimes an increased fine for a lesser charge. They gain nothing from giving you points; however, they do need the revenue.

Also, if you do decide to get a lawyer, a local lawyer is an absolute must, and almost certainly will be a good investment.

mike cap

Rob,

Follow the town clerk's advise. Plead NG and then later you will plead guilty to a lesser, probably non-moving violation. You can ALWAYS get a lawyer or change your atatus to "guilty as charged".

You will try and get the DA to change you to a "failure to obey a traffic device" Can't remember the exact wording, but it is what all the NYS town courts default to when they knock down a speed. You will get some points and a fine. Don't bother with a school unless/until your actual license is in danger and need to get rid of some points.

The town clerk (wife of the judge !!) offered advise so take it ! Remember to turn on the charm and that "people do business with people".

Mike Cap
1997 C2
Arena Red