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Any significant handling changes from 2012 to 2017?

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Old 03-18-2017, 07:06 PM   #1
KeninBlaine
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Default Any significant handling changes from 2012 to 2017?

I'm playing with the idea of getting a 991 this year, and am curious if there were any improvements in the PDK or other power/handling characteristics or features that would make any model years between 2012 and 2016 better or worse choices. Also, is the 2017 991.2 PDK the same, or were improvements made?
Thanks for any input.
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Old 03-18-2017, 07:57 PM   #2
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Not an expert, I would venture that nothing significant changes from 2012 to 2016.

Hell will probably break loose now with the differences and preferences between .1 and .2
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Old 03-19-2017, 12:09 AM   #3
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There are only a couple minor changes that I have found, nothing to do with the handling.

No hard drive for the PCM to store songs in the 2012, when you pull in both paddles (PDK) the 2013+ .1 cars shift into neutral momentarily and the 2012 doesn't. Little things, nothing major.

There may be more but that's all that I can think of offhand.

Edit to clarify that I meant .1's only, many changes in the .2.

Last edited by JimHJr; 03-20-2017 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 03-19-2017, 12:15 AM   #4
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Rear axle steering became available in the 991.2.

https://www.total911.com/technology-...axle-steering/
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Old 03-19-2017, 03:24 AM   #5
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Thanks for the feedback. I thought perhaps that the PDK had been refined over the years, but perhaps if it has been, there may have been software updates to give previous models the same benefits as newer ones. The 991.2 Carreras appear to be very quick, apparently about equal to or better than the 991.1 GTS, and there are a few used 991.2 for sale already. I hope to test drive a 991.2 Carrera and a 991.1 Carrera S to see the differences in power and handling. I've always owned S models in the past, but it appears the new non-S models are amazing enough that the S may not be as compelling, especially at it's price point these days.
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Old 03-19-2017, 08:20 AM   #6
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^^^^
The PDK has been improved and is noticeably smoother, it also has the ability to deliver in between ratio gearing, stick now uses race logic e.g. forward for down - back for up. Lots of differences - different spring rates, different damping rates, different sway bars, helper springs added, different steering calibration, rear axle steering as an option.

Typical Porsche lots of incremental improvements across the board which translates to improved times in handling tests ability to pull more lateral Gs etc. It has been well documented.

Motortrend Fig 8 Handling Test (991.2 series in blue)
918 Spyder 22.2s
991.1 GT3 22.8s
991.1 GT3 RS 22.9s
991.2 TTS 22.9s
997 GT2 22.9s
991.2 C2S 23.1s
997.2 TTS 23.2s
997.2 GT3 RS 23.4s
981.1 Cayman GT4 23.5s
982 718 Boxster S 23.5s
991.2 C2 23.7s
Carrera GT 23.8
981 Cayman GTS 23.8s
991.1 C4S 23.9s
997.1 GT3 RS 23.9s
981.1 Cayman S 24.1s
991.1 C2S 24.2s
997 GT3 24.2s
987 Cayman R 24.5s

Vairano Handling Circuit (991.2 series in blue)
918 Spyder 1:09.54s
991.1 R 1:12.57s
991.1 GT3 1:12.88s
991.2 TTS 1:12.94s
981.1 Cayman GT4 1:15.01s
991.2 C2S 1:15.19s
997 GT2 1:15.53s
997 GT3 RS 4.0 1:16.39s
997.2 TTS 1:16.97s
Carrera GT 1:17.35s
991.1 C2S 1:17.44s
991.1 C4 1:17.7s
981 Boxster S 1:17.89s
997.2 C2S 1:18.05s
997 GT3 RS 1:18.54s
996 GT2 1:18.94
991.1 C cabriolet 1:19.26s
997 T 1:19.96s
997.1 C4S 1:20.45s
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Old 03-19-2017, 08:59 AM   #7
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Improved ride in the 991.2
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Old 03-19-2017, 09:12 AM   #8
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You will be 25% more attractive in a 991.2.
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Old 03-19-2017, 11:31 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAL2GK View Post
You will be 25% more attractive in a 991.2.
But only until the 992s debut.
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Old 03-19-2017, 05:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randr View Post
^^^^
The PDK has been improved and is noticeably smoother, it also has the ability to deliver in between ratio gearing, stick now uses race logic e.g. forward for down - back for up. Lots of differences - different spring rates, different damping rates, different sway bars, helper springs added, different steering calibration, rear axle steering as an option.

Typical Porsche lots of incremental improvements across the board which translates to improved times in handling tests ability to pull more lateral Gs etc. It has been well documented.

Motortrend Fig 8 Handling Test (991.2 series in blue)
918 Spyder 22.2s
991.1 GT3 22.8s
991.1 GT3 RS 22.9s
991.2 TTS 22.9s
997 GT2 22.9s
991.2 C2S 23.1s
997.2 TTS 23.2s
997.2 GT3 RS 23.4s
981.1 Cayman GT4 23.5s
982 718 Boxster S 23.5s
991.2 C2 23.7s
Carrera GT 23.8
981 Cayman GTS 23.8s
991.1 C4S 23.9s
997.1 GT3 RS 23.9s
981.1 Cayman S 24.1s
991.1 C2S 24.2s
997 GT3 24.2s
987 Cayman R 24.5s

Vairano Handling Circuit (991.2 series in blue)
918 Spyder 1:09.54s
991.1 R 1:12.57s
991.1 GT3 1:12.88s
991.2 TTS 1:12.94s
981.1 Cayman GT4 1:15.01s
991.2 C2S 1:15.19s
997 GT2 1:15.53s
997 GT3 RS 4.0 1:16.39s
997.2 TTS 1:16.97s
Carrera GT 1:17.35s
991.1 C2S 1:17.44s
991.1 C4 1:17.7s
981 Boxster S 1:17.89s
997.2 C2S 1:18.05s
997 GT3 RS 1:18.54s
996 GT2 1:18.94
991.1 C cabriolet 1:19.26s
997 T 1:19.96s
997.1 C4S 1:20.45s
Thanks! Great summary.
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Old 03-19-2017, 06:29 PM   #11
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Based on limited time at the track with Porsche World, and comparison with my car (C2S with SPASM):

The 991.1's from 2012.5 to 2016 are pretty much the same feeling, with obvious differences among them being due to options such as Sport Chrono which gives dynamic engine mounts, Sport PASM, 2 vs 4WD and PDDC.

All of the range of 991.2s felt smoother that the equivalent 991.1 variations due to the increased range of the PASM shocks and helper springs and they gain responsiveness from the optional RWD and the Ss larger rear tires for better traction.

Over the last 5 years I kept reading that the steering got better over time, but I could not detect any differences in the short track sessions I had- possibley becase the SPASM and rear wheel drive are so engaging.

I have had several 911s over the years and the 991 architecture and suspension make a huge difference from earlier cars in getting rid of understeer and steering wheel "feel of the road" /bump steer. I like but but many hate the smoothness. In any case its just as easy to place the car.
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Old 03-20-2017, 07:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimHJr View Post
There are only a couple minor changes that I have found, nothing to do with the handling.

No hard drive for the PCM to store songs in the 2012, when you pull in both paddles (PDK) the 2013+ .1 cars shift into neutral momentarily and the 2012 doesn't. Little things, nothing major.

There may be more but that's all that I can think of offhand.
My 2012.5 911 S with pdk shifts into neutral when I pull both paddles...

Cheers
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDH911C2S View Post
My 2012.5 911 S with pdk shifts into neutral when I pull both paddles...

Cheers
That's interesting as I also have a 2012.5 911S and it doesn't shift into neutral when both paddles are pulled. I looked into it and found that they didn't have this feature in the 2012.5.

My car is a launch car so maybe that's why mine doesn't have it, possible that they added it later in the year?
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Old 03-21-2017, 03:26 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimHJr View Post
That's interesting as I also have a 2012.5 911S and it doesn't shift into neutral when both paddles are pulled. I looked into it and found that they didn't have this feature in the 2012.5.

My car is a launch car so maybe that's why mine doesn't have it, possible that they added it later in the year?

I am the second owner and not sure what build date was----I have the Sport design wheel---maybe that is the difference? Do you have Sport Design Steering wheel? I use the "feature" about @ never to 2x Year...lol

Cheers
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Old 03-21-2017, 09:44 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAL2GK View Post
You will be 25% more attractive in a 991.2.
and 25% poorer too!
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