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PenFed Payment Saver/Purchase question

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Old 03-19-2017, 02:55 PM   #16
Cayman7
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glad I could help. Also, if you plan to trade the car and NY charges sales tax based on the difference between the sale price and the trade value, you'll save some additional cash on the tax on your next car.
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Old 03-19-2017, 02:56 PM   #17
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Why don't you lease the car for 48 months and then see what the residual value to market value is?

If you enter the PenFed idea and your car is worth less at the end, don't you have to eat that na you own a car without equity and possibly upside down? I just don't understand the goal with Pended (not that I am criticizing or judging.
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Old 03-19-2017, 03:09 PM   #18
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Why don't you lease the car for 48 months and then see what the residual value to market value is?

If you enter the PenFed idea and your car is worth less at the end, don't you have to eat that na you own a car without equity and possibly upside down? I just don't understand the goal with Pended (not that I am criticizing or judging.
based on what I've seen from Porsche:

1) Penfed interest rate is typically lower (maybe by several points)
2) you have the sales tax advantage (as I noted above) with PenFed in states that calculate it as stated. In Pa anyway you can't get this tax savings on a leased car when you return it.
3) If you want or need to get out of the deal early, it'll be cheaper than with a lease in most cases
4) if you drive more miles than allowed the only penalty is reduced value, not a direct per/mile hit.

There is some risk, for sure. If the car is worth less, you eat it. If it's worth more, you benefit. Since I don't believe Porsche subsidizes leases like say, BMW does, I doubt a well-kept car will be worth less than they've figured for residual value.

Gotta run the numbers both ways so you know what you're getting into. And no, I don't work for PenFed
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Old 03-19-2017, 08:10 PM   #19
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based on what I've seen from Porsche:

1) Penfed interest rate is typically lower (maybe by several points)
2) you have the sales tax advantage (as I noted above) with PenFed in states that calculate it as stated. In Pa anyway you can't get this tax savings on a leased car when you return it.
3) If you want or need to get out of the deal early, it'll be cheaper than with a lease in most cases
4) if you drive more miles than allowed the only penalty is reduced value, not a direct per/mile hit.

There is some risk, for sure. If the car is worth less, you eat it. If it's worth more, you benefit. Since I don't believe Porsche subsidizes leases like say, BMW does, I doubt a well-kept car will be worth less than they've figured for residual value.

Gotta run the numbers both ways so you know what you're getting into. And no, I don't work for PenFed
Exactly. I would also add that having leased a Porsche in the past from PFS, I would not want to deal with them again. They ruined my credit for 3 months because when I gave back the car, the dealer forgot to bill me for the disposition fee and PFS never sent a bill, and automatically marked me as late instead of calling me or even sending a paper (or electronic) bill for $250. It took me 3 months of phone calls to get this rectified, I know all the people who work at PFS is North Carolina at this point.

Lastly, if you lease a car through PFS and want to transfer the lease to someone else, you essentially have to go on the lease with them and if anything happens and the other party doesn't make the payment, you're on the hook for it.
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:26 AM   #20
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I am currently on the Penfed Payment Saver loan on my 2014 991.1 C2S. I really like this loan. There are some things to consider though before you take the leap. You will most probably have no equity on the car by the end of your penfed loan term if you drive around 10k miles per year. You will have some equity if you drive less or if it has a desirable spec on it. There is Gap insurance if you total the car, but if you get it in a accident and it gets reported to carfax, you will most definitely be upside down on its value at the end of the term.

If you are planning on keeping the car for about 10 years, you will end up paying much more for the car over all because of the higher interest rate on the penfed loan and the eventual refinance for the balloon payment at the end of the term. But again, if you are investing your money in hand during that time else where, where you are getting a better ROI you are good.
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:36 AM   #21
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I am currently on the Penfed Payment Saver loan on my 2014 991.1 C2S. I really like this loan. There are some things to consider though before you take the leap. You will most probably have no equity on the car by the end of your penfed loan term if you drive around 10k miles per year. You will have some equity if you drive less or if it has a desirable spec on it. There is Gap insurance if you total the car, but if you get it in a accident and it gets reported to carfax, you will most definitely be upside down on its value at the end of the term.

If you are planning on keeping the car for about 10 years, you will end up paying much more for the car over all because of the higher interest rate on the penfed loan and the eventual refinance for the balloon payment at the end of the term. But again, if you are investing your money in hand during that time else where, where you are getting a better ROI you are good.
yes, good point about things like an accident reducing the value of the car. Since the PenFed loan is just like a vehicle purchase, you have the same risk in this regard. To me, this is the most significant argument to go with a lease vs. a PenFed loan or straight vehicle purchase - you have no worries financially if involved in any sort of accident. The 2nd benefit of a lease thru Porsche is the potential for a "pull ahead" opportunity to get out of the lease early and into another Porsche. And certainly if you finance any purchase for a long period of time (initial balloon or lease followed by a purchase) you're going to spend more in interest charges than if you go with a shorter term.

All this needs to be weighed against the terms you get from either financing method.
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:34 PM   #22
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yes, good point about things like an accident reducing the value of the car. Since the PenFed loan is just like a vehicle purchase, you have the same risk in this regard. To me, this is the most significant argument to go with a lease vs. a PenFed loan or straight vehicle purchase - you have no worries financially if involved in any sort of accident. The 2nd benefit of a lease thru Porsche is the potential for a "pull ahead" opportunity to get out of the lease early and into another Porsche. And certainly if you finance any purchase for a long period of time (initial balloon or lease followed by a purchase) you're going to spend more in interest charges than if you go with a shorter term.

All this needs to be weighed against the terms you get from either financing method.
My SA's view is that on a Porsche lease given the current market in Canada and tight allocations, if I have a car in very good condition with low kms on it and leased it, I will likely have "equity" in the car if I bring it in after the second year to trade. I have to think that the "equity" would evaporate on a lease if I had an accident with it, similar to the loss someone purchasing the car would suffer at trade (or direct sale) time.

Having said that, the equity loss with a lease is limited to the difference between its residual and "what might have been its equity" had I not had an accident.

In other words, if I keep the car to the end of the lease, I just turn it in and my cost was no greater than the lease specified.

I agree it is all about balancing saving some interest costs vs the security of knowing what your fixed depreciation is over 36 months.

If you buy a car and get rear ended, doing $30,000 damage, judging from reactions on this forum, you'll never sell the car on the used car market. If you leased that same car, you just turn it in at the end of the lease with its accident history and you spent no more on your car than the guy beside you who leased and didn't have an accident.

But you did pay something more for your fixed cost of "owning" (renting) vs someone who financed through Penfed with a ballon payment at the end with a lower interest cost.
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Old 03-24-2017, 07:23 PM   #23
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I just sold my 14 C2S. I had a penfed payment saver loan. If you run the numbers side by side they are similar. Porsche has the residual for a 17 C2 I built at 67k after 3 years. Penfed has it at 57k. So you should not be upside down. You should look at the new 17 and run through penfed. The numbers are similar. I'm looking at ordering a 17 and lease it. I'm paranoid with FLORIDA drivers and diminished value. You can get into an accident and be on the hook for 10-15% or more in trade in value. A lease no worries.
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Old 03-24-2017, 07:27 PM   #24
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Logix credit union does 84 month at 3.4% on new and used. Forgot to mention. They also go up to 125% of value.
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Old 03-24-2017, 08:22 PM   #25
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I just sold my 14 C2S. I had a penfed payment saver loan. If you run the numbers side by side they are similar. Porsche has the residual for a 17 C2 I built at 67k after 3 years. Penfed has it at 57k. So you should not be upside down. You should look at the new 17 and run through penfed. The numbers are similar. I'm looking at ordering a 17 and lease it. I'm paranoid with FLORIDA drivers and diminished value. You can get into an accident and be on the hook for 10-15% or more in trade in value. A lease no worries.
Are you saying that the payment between PenFed and Porsche is roughly the same but the residual value is $10K less with PenFed? If so you're essentially $10K ahead with PenFed, assuming you drive similar miles (and don't have an accident!)
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Old 03-24-2017, 08:25 PM   #26
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Can someone give examples of the cost savings on a Penfed loan vs a PFS lease...
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Old 03-24-2017, 11:08 PM   #27
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Gentlemen, the big upside is that there is no value/equity difference. it nets at zero.
Financially speaking if you only pay for what you use, then you negotiated the best allocation of your capital to asset.
Maybe I'm just simple though.
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Old 03-24-2017, 11:36 PM   #28
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Gentlemen, the big upside is that there is no value/equity difference. it nets at zero.
Financially speaking if you only pay for what you use, then you negotiated the best allocation of your capital to asset.
Maybe I'm just simple though.
and you don't have to deal with *** backwards PFS. I had 3 lease payments in a row get applied late on my Cayenne, and at one point had 3 uncashed payment checks with them, they just seemed to sit on them for a month before depositing. I wound up just buying the lease out out of frustration (that and they changed the warranty to 6/100 because of the diesel scandal.)
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Old 03-25-2017, 12:36 AM   #29
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Can someone give examples of the cost savings on a Penfed loan vs a PFS lease...
PenFed has a "payment saver" calculator on their site, so you can easily run their numbers. Be aware that their max loan amount is $100K. Will be a little more work getting Porsche's numbers since that'll require a dealer visit. Of course, if others have recently leased thru Porsche they may be able to give you a rough idea of their terms. Best would be to get a sale price and lease terms from your dealer of choice, though.
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Old 03-25-2017, 11:57 AM   #30
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I used pended payment saver on our 2015 911 GTS. Really a no brainer.

MSRP 161 , I purchased with 13k miles as second owner with CPO for 111k.

3.2% 100k loan payments around 1k with balloon 60th payment of low 40s. Personally, I can't see the last NA Carrera GTS drop into the 30s so I most likely will have equity if I decide to trade prior to balloon. Or I refinance and have a couple hundred dollar payment for a few more years.
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