The most unbelievable dilemma. 991 vs.... Gelandewagen?
01-18-2017, 04:59 PM
#17
Seeing a 911 drive by always elicits emotion from me.. the thing I loved most about owning my 911 was the experience. I saw another member post here yesterday about the two types of things you can pay for... material things and experiences such as travel.. His argument was that owning a 911 is almost a hybrid of the two. Yes, you're paying for a tangible product, but with that you get the experience.
I'm 28 years old. When I owned my 997, every saturday morning I would wake up at 5:30, warm up my car and head to the local PCA chapter breakfast where I broke fast with a bunch of guys in their 50's-70's... I hardly missed a breakfast.. cars and coffees gave me something to look forward to, and whenever a nice day came, I couldn't wait to go for a drive.
Those are things that the 911 gives me that the G-class cannot..Now I'm exploring the option of pickup up a base 991.1 and a cheap, older 4Runner for SUV duty. This would allow me to keep some miles off the 911 (doubt it at first, I'm sure I'd be picking up the keys to the P-Car more often than not) while also giving me a practical people mover and some space when I don't want to bother lugging around my work bag etc.
Guys... thanks for the thoughtful consideration you have put into this discussion.
This is a great point.. Perhaps I should just buy a 2000 4Runner as a truck I can drive alongside these vehicles. I won't say daily, but maybe I split my days 3/4 in each.
Thank you very much for the insight... that's awesome that you've been able to try both and give me a very detailed and such insightful experience.. isn't that awesome how his 2002 lasted so long? And the value it retained? I don't know how or why, but they are fun to drive! It's like your own personal, semi-comfortable semi-truck that looks great. And is old-school cool. Haha.
Which 911 did you order? How do you like your base? Were you unsatisfied with your base?
Good point.. but I think you're wrong on the latter. I love both.. Ideally I would have both... I just can't unless I get older models of each, and that would be inviting more trouble than it is worth. Maybe I pick up an old 4Runner for daily or semi- weekly duty.
This works for you.. but other people may differ. Not everyone can give up practicality every day. Again, maybe the solution is an old 4Runner to handle SUV duty.
I don't... but maybe I snag an old 3rd generation 4Runner (I'm currently in a lifted 2016 5th gen that has been great) and roll the 911 for fun!
Great article clip! Thanks for posting. I think I have seen that in the past. It's funny you suggest the LC... what a great machine! I have a mini LC (2016 4Runner now) but to be honest, I'd rather pick up a 991 and a 3rd gen 4Runner or 99 LC for SUV duty than just have a LC. What do you think of that?
This was easily one of the most helpful posts for me... thank you greatly for taking the time to add your input. Can you tell me a bit more of why you're trading the G63 in? Will you miss it? If you were to have a 991 and an old 4Runner for example, would you be satisifed? I really have always thought my next car would be a G, but as I get closer, I just feel like I'm going to miss out on all the things the 991 will allow me to do, that the G class will not. And adding a cheap 4Runner to the garage would be able to give me a lot of the things the G class would give me outside of the fantastic looks and a lot of character.
Are you the type to be concerned with depreciation?
Thank you for the helpful post! You know, that 80's diesel idea is one I've had also.. or a defender 90!
What a beast! Love it. Great price too.
I've heard about Mastadon.. great idea behind it but digging around I found a lot of unhappy customers... they're essentially known as a flipper in the G market, respraying trucks and commanding much higher prices without doing much else. Thanks for putting the link up though, definitely something I thought about!
THIS. Nailed it all on the head. I think you zeroed in on exactly what some other members missed when saying I don't want either bad enough if I'm in this dilemma. The problem is that I could benefit from both. Thanks for giving me something to chew on. Maybe I get a nice 991 and a cheap SUV.. what are your thoughts on that?
I'm 28 years old. When I owned my 997, every saturday morning I would wake up at 5:30, warm up my car and head to the local PCA chapter breakfast where I broke fast with a bunch of guys in their 50's-70's... I hardly missed a breakfast.. cars and coffees gave me something to look forward to, and whenever a nice day came, I couldn't wait to go for a drive.
Those are things that the 911 gives me that the G-class cannot..Now I'm exploring the option of pickup up a base 991.1 and a cheap, older 4Runner for SUV duty. This would allow me to keep some miles off the 911 (doubt it at first, I'm sure I'd be picking up the keys to the P-Car more often than not) while also giving me a practical people mover and some space when I don't want to bother lugging around my work bag etc.
Guys... thanks for the thoughtful consideration you have put into this discussion.
I think you have to decide what experience you want to have out of a daily driver. The Porsche can certainly transform that if you aren't stuck in traffic all of the time. My problem when I drive the 911 to work is that I usually end up taking the very long curvy way back home and racking up 5x more miles than I had to 
But I do see one what I think is a flaw in your summary statements for both. You say this will be your daily driver - although I don't know the distances you accumulate with that. With the Porsche for sure, and likely the G-class, it will always continue to significantly depreciate as the mileage continues to significantly increase.
But I do see one what I think is a flaw in your summary statements for both. You say this will be your daily driver - although I don't know the distances you accumulate with that. With the Porsche for sure, and likely the G-class, it will always continue to significantly depreciate as the mileage continues to significantly increase.
For nearly the last 20 years my father has had some variant of the 911 and g wagon. The two cars are both masterpieces but are different in almost every way. That's the way he has always justified having both. Just like the 911 the g wagon is rock solid. He recently traded a 2002 g500 with 100,000 miles for a 2016 g63. The 2002 never let him down and the resale value is unmatched for a SUV. I believe he got nearly 60% of the original buying price on the trade in.
As for the comparison of the two, i currently drive a 991 base like the one you are considering (daily 10 out of 12 months a year) and have had considerable driving time behind both the G500 and G63. The g class does make you feel special. For Gods sake its hand made and you sit above absolutely everyone. Both variants sound like muscle cars but they drive like mac trucks. Even the "refined" 63 has the steering feel off a 68 vw bus! But it defines all physics when you step on the accelerator!!!
The 991 will put a smile on your face everyday. I just ordered my second and can't imagine being without one. Not quite as practical but it's one hell of a car.
Both are incredible but for different reasons. You'll be happy with either you choose.
As for the comparison of the two, i currently drive a 991 base like the one you are considering (daily 10 out of 12 months a year) and have had considerable driving time behind both the G500 and G63. The g class does make you feel special. For Gods sake its hand made and you sit above absolutely everyone. Both variants sound like muscle cars but they drive like mac trucks. Even the "refined" 63 has the steering feel off a 68 vw bus! But it defines all physics when you step on the accelerator!!!
The 991 will put a smile on your face everyday. I just ordered my second and can't imagine being without one. Not quite as practical but it's one hell of a car.
Both are incredible but for different reasons. You'll be happy with either you choose.
Which 911 did you order? How do you like your base? Were you unsatisfied with your base?
"I do want either one to hold its value relatively well..."
Then look elsewhere. Both the 991 and G whatever depreciate steeply with the miles you'll put on as a daily driver. Since you're considering two such disparate vehicles, you clearly aren't in love with either enough to make it worth the depreciation and operating costs.
Then look elsewhere. Both the 991 and G whatever depreciate steeply with the miles you'll put on as a daily driver. Since you're considering two such disparate vehicles, you clearly aren't in love with either enough to make it worth the depreciation and operating costs.
I just posted in another thread, and have to repeat here: I can't understand the basic premise here. 991 or G-wagen? Sports car or SUV? I can understand owning both, but to jump from one to the other for an only vehicle?
To me, you either NEED a sports car or don't. You either love to drive something dedicated to road performance or not. You give up practical considerations or don't.
To me, you either NEED a sports car or don't. You either love to drive something dedicated to road performance or not. You give up practical considerations or don't.
Do you own any other vehicles? An SUV is a people mover, material mover, tow vehicle, any number of things that a 991 is not.
My stable includes a 4 DR family sedan, a crew cab dually pickup, a Cayman and a GT3. Different horses for different courses. Neither of the p-cars are driven daily.
Ryan
My stable includes a 4 DR family sedan, a crew cab dually pickup, a Cayman and a GT3. Different horses for different courses. Neither of the p-cars are driven daily.
Ryan
Have to agree with one of the other remembers who suggested that this will likely come down to more of a consideration of what you need the vehicle to do. In the absence of owning another car that can hold more people and help to transport shopping, etc, the 911 may not be the right vehicle.
When it comes to an SUV, for such purposes, the G is really nice. Is it great? I don't think so. The one thing it does have going for it is that it does hold its value. However, with the refresh coming, I think you may underestimate how much value you may lose. IMHO, when model changes/refreshes occur, you tend to notice a drop in retained value. YMMV on that point.
I had a 991.1 Carrera 4 GTS that I foolishly traded in on a different vehicle (Range Rover SVR). Biggest mistake I ever made. Having said that, about 6 months later I purchased a new G63 which I am currently driving. Do I like it? Yes, in it's own way. I love the look of it when I walk up to it. I like the exhaust rumble. Fuel economy is actually pretty decent for a vehicle that I drive hard, returning abut 260miles per tank. Fit and finish is excellent and the vehicle is solid. But, it sucks in handling. It drives like a truck (to be expected), but in a way that just grates on you over time. The seats are beyond reproach. Amazingly comfortable. The boot can hold A LOT, given the low load floor. HVAC in not the best, pretty crappy to be honest. Seat heaters are the worst in the business. In -20C weather here, I won't feel warm in the car for about 20min. No heated steering wheel (I have the AMG performance wheel).
So, why the post? I am returning mine to the dealer in a short while and making the move back to Porsche. Either a 991.2 C4 GTS, or if the dealer is able to provide an allotment to me...a 991.2 GT3.
I would really consider what you need out of the vehicle. I have the benefit of having a 2016 X5M which my wife drives and so I have access to that to do big trips to Costco or to transport a snow blower to one of our other properties. Personally, I think the X5M is one of the most complete SUV's I have ever driven. It hauls, handles exceedingly well, not a single problem thus far in over 1 year (20K miles in 1 year).
Retained values? Not sure I would peg a car purchase on that. It is nice, but on such older vehicles, I am not sure that it will return what you may project.
Best of luck with your decision.
When it comes to an SUV, for such purposes, the G is really nice. Is it great? I don't think so. The one thing it does have going for it is that it does hold its value. However, with the refresh coming, I think you may underestimate how much value you may lose. IMHO, when model changes/refreshes occur, you tend to notice a drop in retained value. YMMV on that point.
I had a 991.1 Carrera 4 GTS that I foolishly traded in on a different vehicle (Range Rover SVR). Biggest mistake I ever made. Having said that, about 6 months later I purchased a new G63 which I am currently driving. Do I like it? Yes, in it's own way. I love the look of it when I walk up to it. I like the exhaust rumble. Fuel economy is actually pretty decent for a vehicle that I drive hard, returning abut 260miles per tank. Fit and finish is excellent and the vehicle is solid. But, it sucks in handling. It drives like a truck (to be expected), but in a way that just grates on you over time. The seats are beyond reproach. Amazingly comfortable. The boot can hold A LOT, given the low load floor. HVAC in not the best, pretty crappy to be honest. Seat heaters are the worst in the business. In -20C weather here, I won't feel warm in the car for about 20min. No heated steering wheel (I have the AMG performance wheel).
So, why the post? I am returning mine to the dealer in a short while and making the move back to Porsche. Either a 991.2 C4 GTS, or if the dealer is able to provide an allotment to me...a 991.2 GT3.
I would really consider what you need out of the vehicle. I have the benefit of having a 2016 X5M which my wife drives and so I have access to that to do big trips to Costco or to transport a snow blower to one of our other properties. Personally, I think the X5M is one of the most complete SUV's I have ever driven. It hauls, handles exceedingly well, not a single problem thus far in over 1 year (20K miles in 1 year).
Retained values? Not sure I would peg a car purchase on that. It is nice, but on such older vehicles, I am not sure that it will return what you may project.
Best of luck with your decision.
This was easily one of the most helpful posts for me... thank you greatly for taking the time to add your input. Can you tell me a bit more of why you're trading the G63 in? Will you miss it? If you were to have a 991 and an old 4Runner for example, would you be satisifed? I really have always thought my next car would be a G, but as I get closer, I just feel like I'm going to miss out on all the things the 991 will allow me to do, that the G class will not. And adding a cheap 4Runner to the garage would be able to give me a lot of the things the G class would give me outside of the fantastic looks and a lot of character.
Are you the type to be concerned with depreciation?
how long have you spent driving a G. I think they look cool as hell and appreciate the old world build.
That said, the bloody wind noise on the highway is ridiculous and they ride like dump trucks. Plus they are not terribly roomy in the back seat.
I like the concept of a Gwagen, but know that I could never buy a newer one. Something like an 80s diesel model as an offroad fun car...absolutely.
911 is my vote.
That said, the bloody wind noise on the highway is ridiculous and they ride like dump trucks. Plus they are not terribly roomy in the back seat.
I like the concept of a Gwagen, but know that I could never buy a newer one. Something like an 80s diesel model as an offroad fun car...absolutely.
911 is my vote.
Thank you for the helpful post! You know, that 80's diesel idea is one I've had also.. or a defender 90!
The best way to do a G-Wagon: http://www.mastodon4x4.com
They have three levels of equipment/finish. Probably not a DD though, but cool.
They have three levels of equipment/finish. Probably not a DD though, but cool.
THIS. Nailed it all on the head. I think you zeroed in on exactly what some other members missed when saying I don't want either bad enough if I'm in this dilemma. The problem is that I could benefit from both. Thanks for giving me something to chew on. Maybe I get a nice 991 and a cheap SUV.. what are your thoughts on that?
01-18-2017, 05:29 PM
#18
Track Day
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reading this , i thought since you want a fun car (911)or a car that is ridiculous to drive (g wagen) because of the body roll and ridiculous fuel economy, why not get a used cayenne turbo? You're definitely making compromises for either decision - but it could be fun (especially a turbo) and not drive as abysmally as a g wagen. Don't get me wrong - i love a g wagen. super cool, screw em all attitude. But for a lone daily driver, its a bit ridiculous based on its ride qualities. i drive about 35,000 miles a year and considered buying a G. After the first mile in the test drive i realized its a car to date, not to marry.
On some level since we are on the 991 forum, we are all opposed to the Cayenne. But it has its merit. Call it the functional 3/4 spirited sports car.
Hope this helps.
On some level since we are on the 991 forum, we are all opposed to the Cayenne. But it has its merit. Call it the functional 3/4 spirited sports car.
Hope this helps.
01-18-2017, 05:36 PM
#19
Burning Brakes
Great article clip! Thanks for posting. I think I have seen that in the past. It's funny you suggest the LC... what a great machine! I have a mini LC (2016 4Runner now) but to be honest, I'd rather pick up a 991 and a 3rd gen 4Runner or 99 LC for SUV duty than just have a LC. What do you think of that?
-0- problems........Old school & solid!
01-18-2017, 05:37 PM
#20
reading this , i thought since you want a fun car (911)or a car that is ridiculous to drive (g wagen) because of the body roll and ridiculous fuel economy, why not get a used cayenne turbo? You're definitely making compromises for either decision - but it could be fun (especially a turbo) and not drive as abysmally as a g wagen. Don't get me wrong - i love a g wagen. super cool, screw em all attitude. But for a lone daily driver, its a bit ridiculous based on its ride qualities. i drive about 35,000 miles a year and considered buying a G. After the first mile in the test drive i realized its a car to date, not to marry.
On some level since we are on the 991 forum, we are all opposed to the Cayenne. But it has its merit. Call it the functional 3/4 spirited sports car.
Hope this helps.
On some level since we are on the 991 forum, we are all opposed to the Cayenne. But it has its merit. Call it the functional 3/4 spirited sports car.
Hope this helps.
I'd never do a cayenne, though they probably look great and drive nicely, a few reasons keep me away from them.
Reliability- I just don't trust they are a reliable car.
Value- Proven to depreciate hard and fast
I think I'd do an old 4Runner and 991 before doing a cayenne, though I do thank you for your input and bringing in a new possibility!
01-18-2017, 05:40 PM
#21
reading this , i thought since you want a fun car (911)or a car that is ridiculous to drive (g wagen) because of the body roll and ridiculous fuel economy, why not get a used cayenne turbo? You're definitely making compromises for either decision - but it could be fun (especially a turbo) and not drive as abysmally as a g wagen. Don't get me wrong - i love a g wagen. super cool, screw em all attitude. But for a lone daily driver, its a bit ridiculous based on its ride qualities. i drive about 35,000 miles a year and considered buying a G. After the first mile in the test drive i realized its a car to date, not to marry.
On some level since we are on the 991 forum, we are all opposed to the Cayenne. But it has its merit. Call it the functional 3/4 spirited sports car.
Hope this helps.
On some level since we are on the 991 forum, we are all opposed to the Cayenne. But it has its merit. Call it the functional 3/4 spirited sports car.
Hope this helps.
Let me propose a new question for you... 991 Turbo and an old LC, or 991 base/s and your new LC?
01-18-2017, 06:05 PM
#23
Thank you for the input, cheers.
01-18-2017, 07:28 PM
#24
Instructor
Thank you very much for the insight... that's awesome that you've been able to try both and give me a very detailed and such insightful experience.. isn't that awesome how his 2002 lasted so long? And the value it retained? I don't know how or why, but they are fun to drive! It's like your own personal, semi-comfortable semi-truck that looks great. And is old-school cool. Haha.
Which 911 did you order? How do you like your base? Were you unsatisfied with your base?
Which 911 did you order? How do you like your base? Were you unsatisfied with your base?
01-18-2017, 09:16 PM
#27
Banned
If PDK get the 991. If manual you will be unimpressed with the 7 speed. 997 gearbox is so much better.
Both the G and 911 are extremes in there class. I personally think that they both make terrible dds. 911 requires long and twisty roads to appreciate it and the G is a country companion. lifestyle has to ocompany it. At least on the weekends. Good dd for me would be a bmw 2x series for the foul weather and fun factor or a mazda mx5 for the low limit fun factor. That's just me but if I just had one choice I would seriously look at my off hours of pleasure. Do they involve off road and back country driving or Sunday morning blasts through fun roads.
That's why I said extreme. I own more than one car but if I was limited to one my preference would revolve around what I do during off hours.
Both the G and 911 are extremes in there class. I personally think that they both make terrible dds. 911 requires long and twisty roads to appreciate it and the G is a country companion. lifestyle has to ocompany it. At least on the weekends. Good dd for me would be a bmw 2x series for the foul weather and fun factor or a mazda mx5 for the low limit fun factor. That's just me but if I just had one choice I would seriously look at my off hours of pleasure. Do they involve off road and back country driving or Sunday morning blasts through fun roads.
That's why I said extreme. I own more than one car but if I was limited to one my preference would revolve around what I do during off hours.
01-19-2017, 12:34 AM
#28
Sweet. Turbo and LC200. I'll have the same garage soon enough. My DD is a '16 Land Cruiser. Love the thing. It's so old fashioned and conservative that it never goes out of fashion. 25 year service life!
01-23-2017, 09:03 PM
#29
SUV vs 911
As different as both of the vehicles are they have some basic similarities---they are luxury purchases (as sports car and upper end SUV)---both vehicles are not really necessary---
I own a 2013 911 C2S and a 2016 Range (full size-Super Charged)----I spent some time driving both the G 550 and a G63----The G550 was okay as a short distance DD---the G 63 was fun to drive and attracted attention---good and bad attention from my friends----As much I would like to overlook the poor on road behavior of the G's---they are not refined and really only capable on fire trails---no serious off-roading---I say this because---much of the G is exposed and would be torn off on any serious off-roading (read cool front fascia) and many will not abuse a 100-150K vehicle to off road abuse. Do you need 3 locking differentials for a trip to Park City? Probably not...
The G is a toy---a really fun toy with a great exhaust note---if you have the desire and means to scratch your big truck itch--do it--it will be fun, but in IMO it is not a daily driver---it is exclusive and that may be the appeal to some...
Getting a 911 and a SUV is the way to go----
Cheers
I own a 2013 911 C2S and a 2016 Range (full size-Super Charged)----I spent some time driving both the G 550 and a G63----The G550 was okay as a short distance DD---the G 63 was fun to drive and attracted attention---good and bad attention from my friends----As much I would like to overlook the poor on road behavior of the G's---they are not refined and really only capable on fire trails---no serious off-roading---I say this because---much of the G is exposed and would be torn off on any serious off-roading (read cool front fascia) and many will not abuse a 100-150K vehicle to off road abuse. Do you need 3 locking differentials for a trip to Park City? Probably not...
The G is a toy---a really fun toy with a great exhaust note---if you have the desire and means to scratch your big truck itch--do it--it will be fun, but in IMO it is not a daily driver---it is exclusive and that may be the appeal to some...
Getting a 911 and a SUV is the way to go----
Cheers
04-27-2017, 01:40 AM
#30
Mine is not my daily driver but I just traded my 2016 GTS for a 2017 G63. They are worlds apart. The Porsche is a cool car and of course its fun. But after driving a few Gs, I guess thats where my intentions are more. That V8 rumble, the undeniable look, the I can go anywhere with this thing attitude. Maybe haul a quarter beef and pull a smoker right behind lol And you even have a spare tire.
What I like about it is the timeless look and how they hold their value. Near 3 tons of protection for all them tail gater cell phone users that loved to get on my bumper in my 911. For some reason it seems like they love to hug your bumper more in something that is slung low to the ground. The roads where I am at are just better suited for the G and with hard winters I can drive it all year long.
I am older so the ease of getting in and out and sitting up high I like. Sure it eats more gas and is basically a military truck. Its more expensive to insure and kind of has that wave your middle finger attitude when you drive it. But I like that. Makes it more fun lol I know when I test drove them, it got noticed way more. If that is of importance. Some like it some don't. I loved the Porsche too. It is just what you like and want. Beef, seafood, or pork, or maybe even a salad.
If it were me, for an every day driver, I would for sure take the G. But thats me and what I like now! I wold never diss on anyone wanting to do the 911 route. Different strokes for different folks!
What I like about it is the timeless look and how they hold their value. Near 3 tons of protection for all them tail gater cell phone users that loved to get on my bumper in my 911. For some reason it seems like they love to hug your bumper more in something that is slung low to the ground. The roads where I am at are just better suited for the G and with hard winters I can drive it all year long.
I am older so the ease of getting in and out and sitting up high I like. Sure it eats more gas and is basically a military truck. Its more expensive to insure and kind of has that wave your middle finger attitude when you drive it. But I like that. Makes it more fun lol I know when I test drove them, it got noticed way more. If that is of importance. Some like it some don't. I loved the Porsche too. It is just what you like and want. Beef, seafood, or pork, or maybe even a salad.
If it were me, for an every day driver, I would for sure take the G. But thats me and what I like now! I wold never diss on anyone wanting to do the 911 route. Different strokes for different folks!
Last edited by stratocaster69; 04-27-2017 at 09:34 PM.