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'Fun factor' of a 991 compared with an air cooled 70's 911?
Having never had the experience of driving an old air cooled 911, I have always been curious about the fun factor compared with modern water cooled Porsches. My first P car was 2005 C2S and I have a GTS now. I was watching a Magnus Walker video and thinking a 275-300 hp *** engine car that weighs 2100 or so pounds sounds like a really good time. I was wondering if some of the other folks on this board could opine.
Jim
I've had several air cooled 911s over the years. The earliest was a 1970 911E and the newest was a 1997 993. They are great cars that represent the state of engineering at Porsche at their time of release. Each generation has its own quirks, or "charm" as some consider it. It is truly amazing at how long Porsche was able to continue selling the air cooled 911 as new with only minor evolutionary changes for over 30 years! This consistency creates a link between the early cars and 1990s 964s and 993s that some consider to be the soul of the car. The 275-300hp that the OP mentioned was not even available in a NA car until the end of the 993 line! The NA cars from 1965-1996 were between 150 and 270 bhp which was world class performance for the time. The gauges and windows fog up. The engines have high maintenance requirements. They drip oil. The interiors are spartan. The AC and heat are not like we are used to today. The 997s and 991s are leaps and bounds ahead in technology and performance...but the old cars are still fun to drive and make people smile. This keeps prices for the air cooled cars high.
See the "997 to SC/3.2" thread on the aircooled 911 rennlist. As another poster said, different years of Porsche 911's are like fine wines. Some years are better than others and some years are better to certain tastes.
I have a 1986 Carrera and 2013 991. The newer car is driven almost every day in the summer.The older one tends to sit, despite being a Targa. The car is just all-around better, but I guess that's to be expected with nearly 30 years in between them.
What Magnus walker and Singer are doing is really reimagining what never was. My 1986 weighs about 2600 pounds and has 240 hp on a good day.
I'm no expert, but I don't think the 70s era 911s had anywhere near that much HP. From 2010 to 2012 I had a low mile 95 C2 from Richard Sloane that came stock with 275 HP, I believe. The fit and finish was not good. The leather doesn't hold up well, the AC sucks. I had some mods done, and a tune, and it was really fun as a toy. A pure toy. But it was a losing battle to try to keep it in near new condition. Ultimately, I got sick of running to the shop for every little thing. The hassle and expense grew old, so I got rid of it. I'd still like to own a 993 Cab someday, but I'd think long and hard about it at these prices, especially for what 60g to 70g can buy you now in a much newer car.
We have an '83 911SC Cabriolet and the '15 Targa 4S.
I'd say they are equally fun under ideal circumstances. In real life, the '15 is so much easier to use we use it more, so it's more fun.
I base this on having owned the air-cooled model since 2001 and noting I enjoy its flavor as much as ever but seem to sip on it less frequently... especially with the new one in the garage.
I had a '07 997 Targa 4S and now have a '96 993 TT and a 81SC. Each car was/is terrific. At first, I felt the 997 felt heavy and sluggish, until I opened up the air flow with a plenum and complete exhaust. The 993TT, with 400HP out of the box, is as smooth as silk and fast. The SC is by far the slowest, but has the most usable power and is a lot of fun around town. The climate control system on the 997 is by far the best and the SC currently doesn't even have AC. I recently test drove a 997 TT and it was so sublime, it felt like a F1 race car. I want one, but would have to sacrifice the SC or the 993 TT. I plan on making the SC my daily driver and its light and bouncy enough to put a smile on my face and scare me while within reasonable speeds.
I had a '07 997 Targa 4S and now have a '96 993 TT and a 81SC. Each car was/is terrific. At first, I felt the 997 felt heavy and sluggish, until I opened up the air flow with a plenum and complete exhaust. The 993TT, with 400HP out of the box, is as smooth as silk and fast. The SC is by far the slowest, but has the most usable power and is a lot of fun around town. The climate control system on the 997 is by far the best and the SC currently doesn't even have AC. I recently test drove a 997 TT and it was so sublime, it felt like a F1 race car. I want one, but would have to sacrifice the SC or the 993 TT. I plan on making the SC my daily driver and its light and bouncy enough to put a smile on my face and scare me while within reasonable speeds.
For each of the cars I mentioned, here are the stock specs. Although with the plenum, racing headers, 200 cell cats and iPE cans, I'm sure my HP in the 997 T4S was higher than stock (so maybe 385 HP) and my SC has the cat-less SSI (so maybe 200 HP). All fun to drive!
Great feedback guys! Thank you. That was the gist of what I was reading eg you can have a lot of fun at slower speeds in a car that feels more connected to the road. It sounds like even more fun if you can if you can 'stroke' an early 70's or late 60's motor up to about 300 normally aspirated hp. As far as the reliability factor it sounds like newer is better.
J
If you like the old air cooled cars, try a boxster s or cayman s. Cheaper and more spartan sports cars. The new 991's are a different animal. Everybody likes different animals.
Of the two I own (1967 and 2016), I find that I grab the keys for the '67 much more. I can drive that car anywhere and be at 7/10ths whereas the 991 is always at 3/10ths.
Of the two I own (1967 and 2016), I find that I grab the keys for the '67 much more. I can drive that car anywhere and be at 7/10ths whereas the 991 is always at 3/10ths.
I bet in short order the '67 will be worth more than the GTS! Great pair!
J
I'm no expert, but I don't think the 70s era 911s had anywhere near that much HP. From 2010 to 2012 I had a low mile 95 C2 from Richard Sloane that came stock with 275 HP, I believe. The fit and finish was not good. The leather doesn't hold up well, the AC sucks. I had some mods done, and a tune, and it was really fun as a toy. A pure toy. But it was a losing battle to try to keep it in near new condition. Ultimately, I got sick of running to the shop for every little thing. The hassle and expense grew old, so I got rid of it. I'd still like to own a 993 Cab someday, but I'd think long and hard about it at these prices, especially for what 60g to 70g can buy you now in a much newer car.
Total nonsense, as usual from you. The leather doesn't hold up? Wtf are you talking about
08-06-2016, 08:25 PM
'Fun factor' of a 991 compared with an air cooled 70's 911?
