991 GTS dyno before and after Kline sport headers and 200 cell cats
07-29-2016, 01:08 PM
#16
Banned
Manual puts down more power than the PDK. PDK's dual clutch system engages all 7 forward gears while the manual engages 3 or 4 gears at a time. The odd and even gears are separated. Equals less rotating mass.
07-29-2016, 03:10 PM
#17
07-30-2016, 11:02 AM
#18
Hi all,
I am traveling (road trip to south France) this weekend. Hence my delayed full review however I will have more time behind the wheel to assess sound and performance.
Results are coming
All I can say so far : above 5000 rpms it's scary
I am traveling (road trip to south France) this weekend. Hence my delayed full review however I will have more time behind the wheel to assess sound and performance.
Results are coming
All I can say so far : above 5000 rpms it's scary
07-30-2016, 09:19 PM
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07-31-2016, 06:02 AM
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Great job. Subscribed also! Just finished a "breathing" project of my own on my Agate Grey 2013 991S! 
07-31-2016, 09:02 AM
#21
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07-31-2016, 02:15 PM
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Is the Rotronics dyno used a brake dyno or an intertial dyno? Usually mechanisms called "chassis dynos" are brake dynos. Brake/chassis dyno results are not really ever comparable to engine stand dynos. Nor are they comparable to other dynos of the same make and model. Note: that the OP wrote
... which indicates an understanding that chassis dyno results are only comparable with results from the same exact dyno.
07-31-2016, 06:26 PM
#23
Drifting
08-01-2016, 07:18 AM
#24
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Hi all,
My little "breathing project" is almost completed (this is happening in Switzerland)
This is the history of my car :
January 2016, I bought a wonderful car, the 991 GTS4, pdk, SPASM, PDCC, Agate Grey. I just love how sexy this car looks in almost any color. I thought my 997.2 4S, black was sexy but the GTS is really hotter and I love the "retro black grill".
February 2016 : I added AWE Xpipe and BMC air filters. WAW!! It sounds like a cup car. I love it! Tunnels and mountain roads are pure sex. I took the beast to German Autobahns and road B500...what a car. Both my wife and I are in love.
June 2016 : little esthaetic enhancements (pics are coming), my car bodyshop put custome made black grills in the front like on the 991 R and I added Side Decals in matte black. Now my car is perfect. I want nothing else (OK maybe a Ferrari Dino).
July 2016 : I got in touch with Fabspeed and Kline for their stainless steel sport headers with 200 Cell cats. Dyno results show great results especially around 3600rpms. After few weeks of a long long waiting time, I received Kline manifolds this morning. I did a dyno this morning with AWE Xpipe and BMC airfilters. After installing the new manifolds we will do another dyno tomorrow morning same time, same conditions and same operator. I am so excited to share the results with you guys from a performance, engine responsiveness, driving and sound perspective.
I will post the manifolds picture and base dyno results tonight. However I can already share with you the base "corrected" results (temp: 77°, humidity : 40%, +500m vs. Sea Level) :
Max HP at 7241rpm : 408HP (-4% vs. Porsche claimed values)
Max torque at 5951rpm : 297 ft-lbs (-9% vs. Porsche claimed values).
The operator told me upfront that his Rotronics AWD dyno has usually very conservative values vs. Porsche claimed values.
I found this interesting article where it says : "Some tuners use the so-called 15/20 rule, which assumes a 15-percent driveline loss for manual transmissions and 20 percent for automatics".
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...nt-fans-page-2
If we apply the 20% loss rule to the measured 340hp to the wheels then we get 425HP.
Anyways the most important for me is the before / after delta...so fingers crossed.
Please don't hesitate to share your views / experiences.
My little "breathing project" is almost completed
(this is happening in Switzerland)This is the history of my car :
January 2016, I bought a wonderful car, the 991 GTS4, pdk, SPASM, PDCC, Agate Grey. I just love how sexy this car looks in almost any color. I thought my 997.2 4S, black was sexy but the GTS is really hotter and I love the "retro black grill".
February 2016 : I added AWE Xpipe and BMC air filters. WAW!! It sounds like a cup car. I love it! Tunnels and mountain roads are pure sex. I took the beast to German Autobahns and road B500...what a car. Both my wife and I are in love.
June 2016 : little esthaetic enhancements (pics are coming), my car bodyshop put custome made black grills in the front like on the 991 R and I added Side Decals in matte black. Now my car is perfect. I want nothing else (OK maybe a Ferrari Dino).
July 2016 : I got in touch with Fabspeed and Kline for their stainless steel sport headers with 200 Cell cats. Dyno results show great results especially around 3600rpms. After few weeks of a long long waiting time, I received Kline manifolds this morning. I did a dyno this morning with AWE Xpipe and BMC airfilters. After installing the new manifolds we will do another dyno tomorrow morning same time, same conditions and same operator. I am so excited to share the results with you guys from a performance, engine responsiveness, driving and sound perspective.
I will post the manifolds picture and base dyno results tonight. However I can already share with you the base "corrected" results (temp: 77°, humidity : 40%, +500m vs. Sea Level) :
Max HP at 7241rpm : 408HP (-4% vs. Porsche claimed values)
Max torque at 5951rpm : 297 ft-lbs (-9% vs. Porsche claimed values).
The operator told me upfront that his Rotronics AWD dyno has usually very conservative values vs. Porsche claimed values.
I found this interesting article where it says : "Some tuners use the so-called 15/20 rule, which assumes a 15-percent driveline loss for manual transmissions and 20 percent for automatics".
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...nt-fans-page-2
If we apply the 20% loss rule to the measured 340hp to the wheels then we get 425HP.
Anyways the most important for me is the before / after delta...so fingers crossed.
Please don't hesitate to share your views / experiences.
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/9179...e-alert-2.html
Whichever brand you end up going with Sport Headers are a great upgrade, and in the event you go with Fabspeed I look forward to working with you
Wait... So the theoretical "corrected" numbers came out way below Porsche's engine stand numbers? Was the actual reading 340hp, per the bottom paragraph of Post 1? If so, man, that's a ****ty number. Either Porsche is overstating hp and torque, this particular dyno (or this whole line of dynos) way under-represents power and torque, the operator doesn't know what he's doing, or your X-pipe actually costs the 9A1 substantial horsepower.
But as you correctly surmised, at least if he is consistent you will have your before/after delta to measure efficacy of the new headers.
But as you correctly surmised, at least if he is consistent you will have your before/after delta to measure efficacy of the new headers.
I say the same thing to everyone as I did him...dynos are used as a measuring tool and should only be considered as one, so don't take the actual beginning and end numbers to heart. Different brands of dynos, and even the same model dyno with a different calibration, read much differently from each other and especially if the atmosphere varies a good bit between them. For instance, we had a GTS dyno 378whp bone stock on our Dynojet here in PA, while Magicrat had his vehicle dynoed in the UK at 343whp bone stock on whichever dyno his shop was using. However, if you start with 4 and end with 9, and I start with 3 and end with 8, those deltas are all that matter, although keep in mind that some variation in results are expected and acceptable based on the individual car and the dyno conditions.
__________________
Porsche Performance Specialist
John@Fabspeed.com
215-618-9796
Fabspeed Motorsport USA
155 Commerce Drive Fort Washington, PA 19034
www.Fabspeed.com
Porsche Performance Specialist
John@Fabspeed.com
215-618-9796
Fabspeed Motorsport USA
155 Commerce Drive Fort Washington, PA 19034
www.Fabspeed.com
08-01-2016, 03:14 PM
#25
Omar this is a very well written/documented upgrade! Kline is very lucky to have you as a client, and perhaps one of these days I'll have that pleasure myself haha. I'm looking forward to seeing the results and hearing your detailed impressions after some good seat time. Go have some fun!
His are made by Kline. Ours are very comparable, though slightly different in regards to primary tube routing and investment cat merge collectors. Whether you go with Kline or Fabspeed, Sport Headers are unmistakably the best performance upgrade on the 991. Personally, we have seen 30+whp/35+wtq on the GTS, tested at our facility and individually by fellow member Magicrat who was kind enough to work with us to develop a GTS specific Sport Header. See post #43 and on at the following thread for reference.
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/9179...e-alert-2.html
Whichever brand you end up going with Sport Headers are a great upgrade, and in the event you go with Fabspeed I look forward to working with you
It is expected in the performance industry for advertised crank hp numbers to vary greatly from what the vehicle makes to the wheels. Depending on the vehicle, we have seen anywhere from a 10% to 25%+ drivetrain loss to the wheels. Be thankful you weren't the unfortunate owner of a "730hp" F12 that came through our shop that dynoed 570whp haha.
I say the same thing to everyone as I did him...dynos are used as a measuring tool and should only be considered as one, so don't take the actual beginning and end numbers to heart. Different brands of dynos, and even the same model dyno with a different calibration, read much differently from each other and especially if the atmosphere varies a good bit between them. For instance, we had a GTS dyno 378whp bone stock on our Dynojet here in PA, while Magicrat had his vehicle dynoed in the UK at 343whp bone stock on whichever dyno his shop was using. However, if you start with 4 and end with 9, and I start with 3 and end with 8, those deltas are all that matter, although keep in mind that some variation in results are expected and acceptable based on the individual car and the dyno conditions.
His are made by Kline. Ours are very comparable, though slightly different in regards to primary tube routing and investment cat merge collectors. Whether you go with Kline or Fabspeed, Sport Headers are unmistakably the best performance upgrade on the 991. Personally, we have seen 30+whp/35+wtq on the GTS, tested at our facility and individually by fellow member Magicrat who was kind enough to work with us to develop a GTS specific Sport Header. See post #43 and on at the following thread for reference.
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/9179...e-alert-2.html
Whichever brand you end up going with Sport Headers are a great upgrade, and in the event you go with Fabspeed I look forward to working with you
It is expected in the performance industry for advertised crank hp numbers to vary greatly from what the vehicle makes to the wheels. Depending on the vehicle, we have seen anywhere from a 10% to 25%+ drivetrain loss to the wheels. Be thankful you weren't the unfortunate owner of a "730hp" F12 that came through our shop that dynoed 570whp haha.
I say the same thing to everyone as I did him...dynos are used as a measuring tool and should only be considered as one, so don't take the actual beginning and end numbers to heart. Different brands of dynos, and even the same model dyno with a different calibration, read much differently from each other and especially if the atmosphere varies a good bit between them. For instance, we had a GTS dyno 378whp bone stock on our Dynojet here in PA, while Magicrat had his vehicle dynoed in the UK at 343whp bone stock on whichever dyno his shop was using. However, if you start with 4 and end with 9, and I start with 3 and end with 8, those deltas are all that matter, although keep in mind that some variation in results are expected and acceptable based on the individual car and the dyno conditions.
Looking forward to your feedback about this amateurish video inside my Coupe which as usual doesn't even capture 50% of the real sound... I was driving between 4000 and 6000 rpms.
08-01-2016, 03:45 PM
#26
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Thank John! Your knowledge and passion are great to read. Sooner or later I'll be one of your customers.
Looking forward to your feedback about this amateurish video inside my Coupe which as usual doesn't even capture 50% of the real sound... I was driving between 4000 and 6000 rpms.
991GTS sport headers & Xpipe 1 - YouTube
Looking forward to your feedback about this amateurish video inside my Coupe which as usual doesn't even capture 50% of the real sound... I was driving between 4000 and 6000 rpms.
991GTS sport headers & Xpipe 1 - YouTube
I can almost feel the sound that the video is holding back lol. We just had a GTS in a few weeks ago for our full Valvetronic Exhaust System (factory headers) and here is a video of us taking it for a spin. This GTS is not quite as loud or "racecar" as yours, so I can imagine what your car really sounds like
08-01-2016, 04:46 PM
#27
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Thank John! Your knowledge and passion are great to read. Sooner or later I'll be one of your customers.
Looking forward to your feedback about this amateurish video inside my Coupe which as usual doesn't even capture 50% of the real sound... I was driving between 4000 and 6000 rpms.
991GTS sport headers & Xpipe 1 - YouTube
Looking forward to your feedback about this amateurish video inside my Coupe which as usual doesn't even capture 50% of the real sound... I was driving between 4000 and 6000 rpms.
991GTS sport headers & Xpipe 1 - YouTube
08-01-2016, 05:07 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
try Sam at by design, US distributer, good price and great service. http://www.bydesignauto.com/collections/porsche-991
Installed headers and exhaust on mine, very happy, no drone at any speed.
His email is:sam@bydesignauto.com
Installed headers and exhaust on mine, very happy, no drone at any speed.
His email is:sam@bydesignauto.com
08-01-2016, 05:16 PM
#29
08-02-2016, 04:12 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
no dyno runs yet?